Rumored Let's talk PEDs, how, how many and why?

WhosTheBoss said:
It’s just the way of the world dude.
Most of these fighters are on something

your body isn’t mean to take this sort of punishment. They need it.
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Again you have zero evidence. Just your feelings.
 
kflo said:
You have to be able to pass the tests. Not just take the drugs. You’re assuming the majority of fighters are in the know yet everyone else isn’t.
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Absolutely. Why is that surprising?

You'd be amazed at how many people there are who can guide athletes on the proper method of passing tests. It's no different than using coaches or nutritionists. You also have you chemistry/drug specialists.
 
Paul Harvey said:
Absolutely. Why is that surprising?

You'd be amazed at how many people there are who can guide athletes on the proper method of passing tests. It's no different than using coaches or nutritionists. You also have you chemistry/drug specialists.
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Again, this is fantasy to suggest that such a large % of fighters have such knowledge yet no one else does.

Again, it’s one thing to be able to prepare for a known test. It’s another to be prepared for a random test on any day.

This network would have to be so underground as to not be at all detectable from the outside yet so widespread that every fighter has access.
 
Paul Harvey said:
Why would this be surprising? It's amazing how many people complain about PED usage, who are also using PEDs. This is not, in any way, new to sports.
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I wouldn't be surprised, but like I said in my previous post:
I mean, that's the issue with the "they're all on something" stance, when fighters say it, they obviously don't include themselves in the pack. And fans are biased, because the Diaz bros seem like cool stoners who talk shit about steroids, they pass the mind-test.
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We've all read plenty of posts of people claiming that "they're ALL on PEDs" but then, for some reason or another, pick a few guys at the top of the sport who they believe are clean.
It was often a point of contention when talking about the GSP/Penn rivalry, BJ's fans would say that "at least Penn is 100% natty" even if neither GSP nor Penn ever pissed hot.


But people saying that "they're all on PEDs" aren't necessarily more insightful or smart than the one who think they're all natty, they just repost the most popular opinion of the moment.
Back in the early to mid, even a bit toward the end of the 2010's, the "right opinion" was that a huge chunk of the elite guys are natty, because "they don't seem the type to do steroids (there's a type?)", "they're not ripped (means nothing, Barnett is the go-to example )", "they always talk about how they hate roiders (we saw how that turned out with Anderson...)" , "steroids aren't in the Japanese culture (BS)" etc etc...

Anytime someone would bring up the more muscular fighters as suspicious, you'd get a bunch of "I know plenty of guys IRL who are equally ripped, and they're 100% natty"



Anyway, I was asking about the Diaz brothers because they're the go-to for the "they're all using" crowd, as examples of clean fighters.
I'm not particularly calling Nick & Nate out, just wondering why they're regularly singled out as the only ones who wouldn't stoop so low at roiding.
 
It is no doubt an epidemic in pretty much any physical sport

I kind of half understand why fighters use PED's, winning means better pay, endorsements, keeping your job etc.

However, the risks (outside of suspension and banning) are pretty damn high. There have been so many documented cases of long term damaging health effects from steroids, it would scare the crap out of me.

I train daily and in my mid 50's it's getting harder every year to stay in decent shape. I've thought about getting a prescription for TRT but from what I have read when you stop it, your body has trouble producing testosterone naturally, and there are potential cardio vascular side effects.

Fighters don't seem to care about the long term health risks.
 
kflo said:
That article discusses timing tests……which you can’t do in random testing.
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No it is not, read the article again... if random testing was enough, then WADA would not have to do that : WADA, for example, told us in a statement that it uses “the Athlete Biological Passport (ABP), which monitors selected biological variables over time that indirectly reveal the effects of doping, as well as increased focus on intelligence and investigations –including information from whistleblowers– to uncover non-analytical Anti-Doping Rule Violations (ADRVs).”

Also, i'm certain that athletes also understand the timing of your so-called "random testing", like being unlikely to get tested immediately again just after a "random" test.
 
Yellowcrab said:
No it is not, read the article again... if random testing was enough, then WADA would not have to do that : WADA, for example, told us in a statement that it uses “the Athlete Biological Passport (ABP), which monitors selected biological variables over time that indirectly reveal the effects of doping, as well as increased focus on intelligence and investigations –including information from whistleblowers– to uncover non-analytical Anti-Doping Rule Violations (ADRVs).”

Also, i'm certain that athletes also understand the timing of your so-called "random testing", like being unlikely to get tested immediately again just after a "random" test.
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? But wada / usada DOES do more than just random testing. Their job is to close as many potential loopholes as they know about. So they have random testing, they have urine tests, blood tests, passports, etc.

And they do test on back to back days.
 
kflo said:
? But wada / usada DOES do more than just random testing. Their job is to close as many potential loopholes as they know about. So they have random testing, they have urine tests, blood tests, passports, etc.

And they do test on back to back days.
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Fine but your main argument was based on random testing... you just recognized that random testing is very far from being sufficient.

Also, do they test when it's time for everyone to sleep ?
 
Competitive BJJ/grappling is full of steroids even at low levels, and a lot of guys move to low level MMA and continue their drug use there. I personally know of a couple of guys who made the UFC and were on steroids in their earlier career, no idea if they cut off their steroids for their short UFC careers but this was also pre-USADA. Anecdotally, guys with a striking background were less likely to use (or hid their usage better), whereas guys are much more open about their usage in grappling.
I think a lot of people don't realize that the advantages from past steroid use don't all disappear (I believe use makes permanent changes to muscle fibers etc); I am sure a lot of guys use before making it to the UFC and then scale back heavily or quit completely. Guys like Carwin and Brock looked much larger prior to their UFC runs, they likely stopped or scaled back their usage once they knew they were getting tested.
 
Yellowcrab said:
Fine but your main argument was based on random testing... you just recognized that random testing is very far from being sufficient.

Also, do they test when it's time for everyone to sleep ?
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random testing closes a huge loophole in traditional testing programs and prevents traditional cycling of steroids. other processes in place close other loopholes / gaps.
 
Richard Fannin said:
I wouldn't be surprised, but like I said in my previous post:


We've all read plenty of posts of people claiming that "they're ALL on PEDs" but then, for some reason or another, pick a few guys at the top of the sport who they believe are clean.
It was often a point of contention when talking about the GSP/Penn rivalry, BJ's fans would say that "at least Penn is 100% natty" even if neither GSP nor Penn ever pissed hot.


But people saying that "they're all on PEDs" aren't necessarily more insightful or smart than the one who think they're all natty, they just repost the most popular opinion of the moment.
Back in the early to mid, even a bit toward the end of the 2010's, the "right opinion" was that a huge chunk of the elite guys are natty, because "they don't seem the type to do steroids (there's a type?)", "they're not ripped (means nothing, Barnett is the go-to example )", "they always talk about how they hate roiders (we saw how that turned out with Anderson...)" , "steroids aren't in the Japanese culture (BS)" etc etc...

Anytime someone would bring up the more muscular fighters as suspicious, you'd get a bunch of "I know plenty of guys IRL who are equally ripped, and they're 100% natty"



Anyway, I was asking about the Diaz brothers because they're the go-to for the "they're all using" crowd, as examples of clean fighters.
I'm not particularly calling Nick & Nate out, just wondering why they're regularly singled out as the only ones who wouldn't stoop so low at roiding.
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Well, I think it's because people assume they don't because they don't have the ripped body. Plus, they slam steroid users.

Jon Fitch used to slam steroid users, until he tested positive.

The whole "look" thing is ridiculous. People should have learned when the top 10 riders at the Tour de France tested positive. Certainly none of them look like they're on PEDs.

The reason people say "most are using" is that when news really breaks, it turns out nearly everyone IS using. Case in point: baseball in the late 90's. Football at ANY time.

Top athletes are going to find an edge with PEDs whether it's a strength, endurance or psychological edge. It's part of professional sports.

GSP, by the way, is one of my all time favorite fighters. He never failed a test, however early on he had a serious case of gynecomastia that was hard to miss. He was clearly using. Do I care? Not in the least.

I have no issues with PEDs at all. I'd much rather see athletes using things like steroids and GH to help with recovery and help people minimize injury, rather than copious amounts of painkillers.
 
TurboHolocaust said:
Competitive BJJ/grappling is full of steroids even at low levels, and a lot of guys move to low level MMA and continue their drug use there. I personally know of a couple of guys who made the UFC and were on steroids in their earlier career, no idea if they cut off their steroids for their short UFC careers but this was also pre-USADA. Anecdotally, guys with a striking background were less likely to use (or hid their usage better), whereas guys are much more open about their usage in grappling.
I think a lot of people don't realize that the advantages from past steroid use don't all disappear (I believe use makes permanent changes to muscle fibers etc); I am sure a lot of guys use before making it to the UFC and then scale back heavily or quit completely. Guys like Carwin and Brock looked much larger prior to their UFC runs, they likely stopped or scaled back their usage once they knew they were getting tested.
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Clearly you can use, then taper off before a fight. You'll still retain much of the strength advantage you gained during a cycle.
 
kflo said:
random testing closes a huge loophole in traditional testing programs and prevents traditional cycling of steroids. other processes in place close other loopholes / gaps.
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Perhaps... unless they're looking for a certain threshold. Otherwise, athletes can microdose and pass tests as long as they stay under a certain testosterone threshold.
 
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