Let's talk addictions

[franklinstower]

If you truly understood scientific explanation then I doubt your next statement about finality of faith in the notion that everything that can be discovered has already been discovered would have appeared. Science is literally the art of exploring and discovering.

I fully expect that there will be a time with all this nonsense about spiritual energies are no longer accepted by the masses especially considering the brain is pretty damn well understood at this point and animals exist along all levels of brain function from intelligent self aware apes to primitive brains.

Again, I would like to reiterate this fact that you claim to have had an experience that can ONLY be explained by the Christian deity, but you can't substantiate that claim one bit. Which leads me to believe that you very well just made all this shit up to make yourself feel better about life.

You kind of made my point for me in that first paragraph. I expect someone at some point to "discover" energies that we have not been able to discover scientifically at the present moment. You seem to only be willing to believe things that are already discovered and discount all accounts that lie outside of that ever rising tide.

I can respect that, to an extent, but since I have had numerous types of experiences that cannot be explained under the current scientific paradigm I must concede the limits of our scientific progress and knowledge presently.

I am unable to only accept what has been demonstrated in a laboratory seeing as how scientific progress just keeps on ticking by and things we take for granted now would have been unbelievable even 100 years ago. I have no reason to doubt this will continue to astound and shift our paradigms,

Also I have not really made the claim highlighted in red. This is an assumption you have made based on our limited dialogue. My thinking is much more sophisticated than that actually.

 

[DoomPatrol]

You kind of made my point for me in that first paragraph. I expect someone at some point to "discover" energies that we have not been able to discover scientifically at the present moment. You seem to only be willing to believe things that are already discovered and discount all accounts that lie outside of that ever rising tide.

I can respect that, to an extent, but since I have had numerous types of experiences that cannot be explained under the current scientific paradigm I must concede the limits of our scientific progress and knowledge presently.

I am unable to only accept what has been demonstrated in a laboratory seeing as how scientific progress just keeps on ticking by and things we take for granted now would have been unbelievable even 100 years ago. I have no reason to doubt this will continue to astound and shift our paradigms,

Also I have not really made the claim highlighted in red. This is an assumption you have made based on our limited dialogue. My thinking is much more sophisticated than that actually.

You keep talking about all these experiences that cannot be explained, but you can't seem to substantiate that claim for a single one that shows anything like you're claiming. This is really simple. All you have to do is type out the situation that occurred where you decided this must be God and not my disillusioned brain.

And you pretty much did make that exact claim.

I can say that it was not just joy that came and light --it was information. I "knew" Jesus after that and my entire view on life was changed. It took me about ten years to figure out that it was christian theology that had been download into me though because I was raised to believe that this was the one religion that had been so ruined and changed and warped that it had no power.

The issue with your first sentence is that scientific scrutiny of everyone who claims to understand these energies has consistently shown them to be complete frauds who can't demonstrate said knowledge of energies when placed under real testing conditions. There's always some excuse for why they can't produce because they are frauds.

You haven't named a single experience so far that cannot be explained by current scientific paradigm. So just name one. This is really simple. Stop beating around the bush and describe said experience as it occurred. If it's a real experience that couldn't be explained, then I'm happy to say so. My guess is you know that deep down inside that your experiences can be completely explained by current science and that you just don't to have that exposed because then this proselytizing online about Jesus being so wonderful would come to a crashing halt.

 

[franklinstower]

You keep talking about all these experiences that cannot be explained, but you can't seem to substantiate that claim for a single one that shows anything like you're claiming. This is really simple. All you have to do is type out the situation that occurred where you decided this must be God and not my disillusioned brain.

And you pretty much did make that exact claim.

I can say that it was not just joy that came and light --it was information. I "knew" Jesus after that and my entire view on life was changed. It took me about ten years to figure out that it was christian theology that had been download into me though because I was raised to believe that this was the one religion that had been so ruined and changed and warped that it had no power.

The issue with your first sentence is that scientific scrutiny of everyone who claims to understand these energies has consistently shown them to be complete frauds who can't demonstrate said knowledge of energies when placed under real testing conditions. There's always some excuse for why they can't produce because they are frauds.

You haven't named a single experience so far that cannot be explained by current scientific paradigm. So just name one. This is really simple. Stop beating around the bush and describe said experience as it occurred. If it's a real experience that couldn't be explained, then I'm happy to say so. My guess is you know that deep down inside that your experiences can be completely explained by current science and that you just don't to have that exposed because then this proselytizing online about Jesus being so wonderful would come to a crashing halt.

To the highlighted part. I have suspected that you aren't really reading my posts as you don't respond to most of the points I make. This statement proves this as I have directly spoken on this exact topic today with you......... If you are not going to read and respond to me why are we talking?


I have not shared any other experiences because you have already said that there are no experiences that anyone can share that would shift your position. You have an unshakable faith in your atheism. So much so that you have said that any experience anyone can share that lies outside of our current paradigm did not happen.

Are you saying you have shifted that position and will accept accounts from people of things that lie outside current paradigms?

Also to another point you made.


Hundreds of millions of people have spiritual experiences on a regular basis. It is completely wrong to conflate that with scientists disproving charlatans that try to con people into believing they have powers. Science is not in a position to measure or quantify these kinds of experiences as they are not repeatable or even initiated by the people who have them.

 

[OneManOrgy]

You can read your books, go to school for it, you'll never understand the mind of an addict until you are one and hit ROCK fucking bottom OVER and OVER again even though you don't want to and all you want is to stop

 

[minute bull]

 

[PhitePhan]

... considering the brain is pretty damn well understood at this point...

You'd be surprised how little we currently know about the brain. Last I checked, we "understand" less than 10 of the 40+ known neurotransmitters responsible for our functioning. Add to this the fact that our knowledge of neurotransmitters we claim to be familiar with (e.g. serotonin, gaba, glutamate, etc) remains very limited as well. For example, from this 2018 article below:

"Serotonin is one of the chemical messengers that nerve cells in the brain use to communicate. Modifying serotonin levels is one way that antidepressant and anti-anxiety medications are thought to work and help people feel better. But the precise nature of serotonin’s role in the brain is largely unknown.
https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2018/06/14/measuring-brain-chemistry/

Memory is also another complex issue that we know very little about...

"The specific way information is organized in long-term memory is not well understood, but researchers do know that these memories are arranged in groups."
https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-memory-2795006

The fact that brain diseases and injuries to brains causes extreme personality changes makes the idea of a human soul seem silly though.

Can you elaborate please? How do changes related to physical injury/illness disprove/contradict the presence of a soul?

Again, I would like to reiterate this fact that you claim to have had an experience that can ONLY be explained by the Christian deity, but you can't substantiate that claim one bit. Which leads me to believe that you very well just made all this shit up to make yourself feel better about life.

Pot meet kettle.

 

[WandySaku2]

Can’t let yourself get caught in the trap of hoping someday around the corner a lady will fix it. It’s you or nobody, that day never comes

It's not even that. It has nothing to do with being "fixed", just pointing out how one dopamine/seratonin/whatever trigger can substitute for the other.

 

[DoomPatrol]

To the highlighted part. I have suspected that you aren't really reading my posts as you don't respond to most of the points I make. This statement proves this as I have directly spoken on this exact topic today with you......... If you are not going to read and respond to me why are we talking?


I have not shared any other experiences because you have already said that there are no experiences that anyone can share that would shift your position. You have an unshakable faith in your atheism. So much so that you have said that any experience anyone can share that lies outside of our current paradigm did not happen.

Actually I didn't say that and I don't have unshakable faith in anything in life. My beliefs are grounded in the preponderance of evidence that I have at that time. Any of my beliefs can be changed with new evidence.

Are you saying you have shifted that position and will accept accounts from people of things that lie outside current paradigms?

I've never said I don't accept that you BELIEVE you had something happen to you. I've only said that I don't believe that it can only be explained by the way you think it can be. There's a significant difference in the two statements. I believe that you think you had a spiritual experience of some sort that you attribute to a deity. I also believe that experience wasn't because of a deity and that your statement that it can only be explained by a deity is wrong.

Also to another point you made.


Hundreds of millions of people have spiritual experiences on a regular basis. It is completely wrong to conflate that with scientists disproving charlatans that try to con people into believing they have powers. Science is not in a position to measure or quantify these kinds of experiences as they are not repeatable or even initiated by the people who have them.

People have spiritual experiences on drugs all the time. Oddly enough, the other poster mentioned serotonin and LSD studies have recently shown that spiritual experiences have something to do with the production and release of said chemical in the body. They can block an LSD trip via serotonin blockers.

Don't you find it odd that every science is capable of finding literally everything else known to affect our universe in some way, with the exception of this one religious thing you really want to believe in? You only believe in it because you read a book that says it exists without evidence to back up those claims. There's no other evidence for said energy or souls in this universe.

 

[franklinstower]

Actually I didn't say that and I don't have unshakable faith in anything in life. My beliefs are grounded in the preponderance of evidence that I have at that time. Any of my beliefs can be changed with new evidence.




I've never said I don't accept that you BELIEVE you had something happen to you. I've only said that I don't believe that it can only be explained by the way you think it can be. There's a significant difference in the two statements. I believe that you think you had a spiritual experience of some sort that you attribute to a deity. I also believe that experience wasn't because of a deity and that your statement that it can only be explained by a deity is wrong.



People have spiritual experiences on drugs all the time. Oddly enough, the other poster mentioned serotonin and LSD studies have recently shown that spiritual experiences have something to do with the production and release of said chemical in the body. They can block an LSD trip via serotonin blockers.

Don't you find it odd that every science is capable of finding literally everything else known to affect our universe in some way, with the exception of this one religious thing you really want to believe in? You only believe in it because you read a book that says it exists without evidence to back up those claims. There's no other evidence for said energy or souls in this universe.

Thanks for the clarification of your thoughts.

No I do not find it odd that science cannot detect the subtle energies that we experience in a spiritual path. It is a new field, hasnt been around very long and to my way of thinking is just getting of the ground.

I foresee many massive breakthroughs in the future and some of them may well be spiritual in nature.

The psychedelic experinece is indeed similar to spiritual awakening. One can draw a parallel beteeen specific peak experiences produced by both psychedelics and religouse devotion.

The psychedelic experience, as far as I know, does not go as far into those realities, nor are the results as deep and effective IME with both camps.

And once again I KNOW there is God by way of direct experince but you cannot admit any possibilities that are not already examined in a laboratory so sharing anything with you would be casting pearls... and fruitless.

Your type will just have to await such a time when certain scientific breakthroughs are available to you and that is assuming they ever come.

 

[Sensei Student]

This is interesting. The same can be said about criminals.

 

[dildos]

Addiction is awesome. I don’t know what I would do without it.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

It's not even that. It has nothing to do with being "fixed", just pointing out how one dopamine/seratonin/whatever trigger can substitute for the other.

Can, but can’t be relied on to ever happen. It won’t. It’s a fantasy.

The sun could explode too. That would also solve your problems, and mine.

“Anything can happen” - that’s true, not a statement to depend on.

 

[thoughtsone]

So this experience told you something you couldn't have possibly have come up with your own thoughts and beliefs? What information or knowledge did you gain that you couldn't have created inside your own head? Unless something definitive was provided to you like that, how could you possibly know for a fact that it wasn't just imagined by your own mind out of necessity for something to help you feel better about your life?



Are we not allowed to challenge people's beliefs anymore in this world? I get challenged anytime I bring up being an Atheist and nobody comes to my fucking rescue telling the mean old Christians to let me be. Someone has a literal delusion about magical sky daddies and I'm not allowed to ask questions online because that's too damaging to his psyche?

No. But your attack was based on him saying that helped him. Shouldnt be attacked for there beliefs but he never attacked you and thus wasn't a reason to go out of your way to point and laugh.

Helax

If a giant purple alien I imagined and helped me through divorce or some shit still worked form me.

 

[zapataxiv]

This thread isn't for this discussion, but...

You were priming your brain to have an experience.
And then you had an experience.

Just a disclaimer as a fellow meditation enthusiast. Not all meditation is religious in nature. I practic a purely atheistic method.
The priming you’re talking about is dependent on what the guy was instructed in and who instructed him.

 

[ShadBo]

Just a disclaimer as a fellow meditation enthusiast. Not all meditation is religious in nature. I practic a purely atheistic method.
The priming you’re talking about is dependent on what the guy was instructed in and who instructed him.

Totally agreed.

 

[WandySaku2]

Can, but can’t be relied on to ever happen. It won’t. It’s a fantasy.

The sun could explode too. That would also solve your problems, and mine.

“Anything can happen” - that’s true, not a statement to depend on.

You extrapolated a lot from very little information and it's lead you to an off-base conclusion. I'll just leave it at that.