Let's say Cain ..

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by iLesnar, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. iLesnar

    iLesnar Every dog has his day in MMA

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    goes on to DOMINATE a 5 round decision against JDS. Takedowns in every round, GNP, the whole shabagabang.

    On one hand, you have JDS that knocked out Cain in 60 seconds, and on one hand you have Cain that outclassed JDS for 25 minutes.

    Now surely there will be alot of people that will say "Oh so what, JDS actually knocked Cain out, I'd favor him in the third", but what do you REALLY think?

    This is what I have believed since day 1, you dominate a fight for a decision is more of statement than KOing someone. But what say you?
     
  2. QTdd**

    QTdd** Green Belt

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    Dominating to a decision is much more impressive than hitting once strike in the fight and KO'ing someone.

    There isn't much luck involved in the first scenario, but the second one could have been lucky.

    Is Ryan Jimmo better than Anthony Perosh? Probably, but you can't conclude that from a 7-second fight in which nothing really happened.
     
  3. pavian

    pavian Orange Belt

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    surely people will say that? I'm pretty sure even more people will call the first fight a fluke, which is BS imo

    if that happens the way I see it is the way everyone should, they are 1-1 and a thrid fight is probably in the future
     
  4. iLesnar

    iLesnar Every dog has his day in MMA

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    I'm just getting ready for the shit storm.

    I agree all the way.

    People seem to forget that if Cain lands a takedown and start taking JDS' cardio away, while his own cardio is just getting started, the power that JDS will get diminished with his cardio and then it's Cain's fight.

    I can't wait for this fight, arguably the best HW fight since Fedor/CC, but all that glamour taken away by the first KO punch, people seem uninterested. People aren't giving this fight the attention it deserves.

    #1 and #2 HWs going at it, complete skill sets, complete power, complete everything at HW.

    Can't freaking wait
     
  5. iLesnar

    iLesnar Every dog has his day in MMA

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    Yes they are 1-1, but who would you really call better?
     
  6. R0bert0Lu0ng0**

    R0bert0Lu0ng0** Banned Banned

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    a ko is more dominant

    but it can be a lucky hit, so a dominant decision answers more questions i guess
     
  7. robmorpeth

    robmorpeth Brown Belt

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    If that does happen I think it would be safe to assume that neither result could be used to predetermine the result of a potential third fight.
     
  8. Fury

    Fury in the flicker Senior Moderator

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    In this hypothetical, I would say Cain's victory is probably more telling. 1 punch knockouts in the first minute don't have too much information to draw on where a 25 minute domination does. I would lean Cain in a third but not in such a way as to think him getting clipped and finished couldn't happen.

    I am assuming in this exercise you intend that Cain is never rocked. If he is, then I would call fight 3 a tossup.
     
  9. Break Brick

    Break Brick Black Belt

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    It's up for interpretation in my opinion. What is ultimately important is their ability to win via their own method/skillset, and how likely that is to occur however many times they fight.

    If Cain does dominate for 5 rounds then realistically we would be looking at a pretty close line for the 3rd fight. As Cain would have shown the ability to both dominate a decision and dictate where the fight took place, but also suffer a knockout loss in the very 1st round.

    If Cain can dominate for 5 rounds then he has implemented his game, if he isn't able to do this then the likelihood of JDS winning via KO/TKO is(from the evidence we have) pretty high.

    Therefore I dont think it is fair to consider either more dominant or one as luckier than the other. It's somewhat dependant on variance, but largely down to who is able to implement game plan and skillset.
     
  10. Righteous Jon

    Righteous Jon Orange Belt

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    This fight could so easily go either way, Cain could even knock out Junior too. I'm hoping Junior wins because I think he has more to offer as the Champion. He helps less fortunate people and he seems like a genuinely caring person. Cain seems like a nice guy but is more in it for just himself. I am rooting for Junior, and think Junior is probably better than Cain, but I wouldn't be upset if Cain won, and believe Cain is more well rounded and the better fighter overall if that makes sense.

    Junior - Boxing & TDD
    Cain - Wrestling & extremely solid kick boxing + cardio & everything else.
     
  11. Emjay

    Emjay And again and again and again and ag.. zzzzzzzz

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    A dominant 25 minutes is equally, if not more impressive because you have to avoid getting demolished as well as doing the demolishing for a longer period of time

    People focus on offense too much around here
     
  12. RearNakedCh0ke

    RearNakedCh0ke Orange Belt

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    Lets say he wont
     
  13. MTL

    MTL Brown Belt

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    It goes both ways. A dominating 5 round decision can be equaly as impressive as a

    first round knockout. Saying that dominating decisions are more impressive takes

    away from specialists like anderson silva who go in there and take guys out. It all

    depends on the fighter. For example Matt Serra knocking out GSP was a fluke

    because there was no way on paper that was supposed to happen, but you cant call

    the JDS knockout on cain a fluke when he's KO'd almost everyone thats stood infront

    of him. The guy has arguably the best hands in the heavyweight division, a solid

    chin, great takedown defense, and talks very highly of his ground game that we

    havn't yet seen. You can't take anything away from this guy, nothing he does is

    fluke, he's an extremely technical striker.


    Now with all that said, Cain is also an animal. Solid striker, phenomenal takedowns

    with explosive ground and pound. Whats amazing is even after being knocked out in

    60 seconds so many people are still putting their money on this guy in the second

    fight. that just tells you how good he is. this fight can go either way but im sticking

    with JDS like i did in the first fight. I just dont see cain being able to execute those

    takedowns and holding him there. JDS is to solid of a fighter and to athletic for cain

    to be able to implement his game plan.
     
  14. Lito Lapida

    Lito Lapida Brown Belt

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    it's almost the same like serra vs. gsp.
     
  15. Sirwastealot

    Sirwastealot Red Belt

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    Of course a domination would be more impressive. But i think if it goes 5 rounds itl be a close fight, and they will both take a lot of damage. JDS has great TDD and his cardio can hold up.

    An early KO doesn't tell us a lot but it gives us a fair idea, JDS was able to land flush and it wasn't really lucky. It was pretty straight forward. Things could be different in the rematch but for now JDS is the better fighter.
     
  16. Silverstar17

    Silverstar17 Red Belt

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    There was a video that showed JDS training that exact punch he caught Cain with directly before the fight. That plus the fact that his game plan was to end it as early as possibly because of his knee show that it wasn
     
  17. F Z NUTZ

    F Z NUTZ Banned Banned

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    This is why I like MMA. You never really what is going to happen for sure.
     
  18. FightsFTW

    FightsFTW Red Belt

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    I'd say a dominating decision is better. In the KO, they may have both been landing up until one of them got KO'd, which is kinda the case with the first fight, Cain did land some good hard leg kicks, but ultimately got KO'd soon after. In a 25 minute dominant decision however, it's a one sided affair, the opponent, in this case JDS would have had 25 mins to land or catch Cain in something to win, but it never happened, while Cain on the other hand was having his way with him. So yes I'd say dominating decision > KO.
     
  19. 0vary hugger**

    0vary hugger** Banned Banned

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    If cain wins in any fashion there will be a rubber match.
     
  20. CTYankee

    CTYankee Brown Belt

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    I can conclude that he was better on that day. Also, as small as the sample is, past performance is the best indicator of future results.

    Plus. No way Cain JDS goes 5 rounds.
     

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