Legs, legs, legs

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Thorpedo, May 20, 2014.

  1. Thorpedo

    Thorpedo Orange Belt

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    I have recently been persudaded into signing up to a number of races/runs etc (Half marathon, Tough mudder and a 20 mile mud race over 2 days) so I have cranked up my cardio

    My routine has changed recently to incorporate the need of cardio and looks something like this:

    Monday - Running (3-5km at a decent pace)
    Tuesday - Starting Strength A (Squat, bench, deadlift)
    Wednesday - Hill Sprints
    Thursday - Starting Strength B (Squat, OHP, Row)
    Friday - Spinning
    Saturday - Starting Strength A
    Sunday - Long Steady Run (10-15km slow)

    Once a week i will skip one of the cardio sessions to give myself a day off but the changes to my routine and the fact I am doing some kind of legs everyday they are starting to struggle and my squats are certainly struggling.

    Since these changes my squats have been struggling (About to stall for the 3rd time) and can only think its the fact they aren't getting any rest.

    How would you guys alter/adjust the routine to still get stronger but keep the cardio going to ensure I am good condition for the race (I am happy to have some weight change to some extent if you feel diet is an isse)

    P.s - I generally get plenty of sleep, 8 hours during the week and 9 at weekends

    Thanks
    Steve
     
  2. DrBdan

    DrBdan Something clever

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    The first thing I would try is making one of the squat days (probably Thursday) a lighter day. Either do your regular squats but with reduced weight (70-80% of your working weight) or use a lighter variation (e.g. front squats, lunges).

    If that doesn't help you could consider dropping a day of lifting altogether to give your body a chance to recover.

    Finally, depending on how long you are going to be doing the additional conditioning work you could consider switching to a less intense lifting program. 5/3/1 would be an option since it's easy to fit around other training.
     
  3. obroin

    obroin Orange Belt

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    Things change a little since all three events are over 2 days. Individually, they aren't that bad, but all together it is going to HURT.

    The first thing I would recommend is dropping the lifting down to 2 days a week. You could do SS A and SS B, but I've always liked this split when I'm pressed for time.

    A- Squat, Row, OHP
    B- Deadlift, Bench, Pull Ups
    with some core work thrown in.

    What you have to understand is that at this point, gaining strength/muscle is going to be almost impossible if you want to improve your running. At best, you can hope to maintain it. To that end, I would recommend 3 days a week of running (mixing up the distance/intensity), with 1 day of cross training. Swimming would be preferable, since it is non-impact and allows you to work your cardio and let your legs rest, but a super easy jog/walk is not out of the question.

    So here's a split you could follow.

    Monday- Mid Distance Run (4-8 miles)
    Tuesday- A Lift
    Wednesday- Hill Sprints
    Thursday- B Lift
    Friday- Cross Training
    Saturday- Long Run (increase distance every week-follow a marathon/half marathon plan)
    Sunday- Off

    Another option is to lift 2 days a week as above, with 4 low mileage days (2-4 miles), and one long run on Saturday, taking Wednesday and Sunday off. IE

    Monday- Run, Lift A
    Tuesday, Run
    Wednesday-off
    Thursday- Run, Lift B
    Friday- Run
    Saturday-Long run
    Sunday- Off

    Also, look up Alexander Viada. He is a competitive Ironman runner and powerlifter. He talks a lot about how if you want to train completely different disciplines, you need to focus on the most important stuff and cut out all the crap. Might help you come up with a better program for your needs then what I've outlined.

    EDIT: Wait after re-reading your post do you mean only the mud race is over 2 days? I thought all three events were over one weekend haha. Still, the above programs could definitely help.
     
  4. ironwolf

    ironwolf Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    I only lift 2x a week when I have ambitious running/cycling goals.


    google Alex Viada he had a 2 part article called so you want to run AND be strong (or something like that), dude is a beast. I use a program similar to what he lays out and Ive been able to maintain 1000+ while doing well in races of 5k up to 50 miles. I have a 100k coming up in a few weeks, Im running a lot but still staying above 1k.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2014
  5. Synapse

    Synapse Blue Belt

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    Others have said it, but A) you've got to prioritize either the strength training or the running and B) you need more rest. Cut the less important down to twice a week.

    Also, I know you're running SS and the whole body compounds every day is a core tenet, but this is a very good time to consider an upper/lower split. Something like lower/upper/conditioning/lower/upper/conditioning/off is a template that's been used by many athletes and works well. Cressey's got an article on it on Tnation somewhere.

    If it were me, I'd have you squat Monday, bench Tuesday, hill sprints Wednesday, pull on Thursday, OHP on Friday, LISS Saturday, Sunday off, with 2-3 assistance exercises for 2-3x8-12 for each of those lifting days.

    Alex Viada is a smart man, that's a great resource. Good luck with the mudder and your other races!
     
  6. Thorpedo

    Thorpedo Orange Belt

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    Thanks for the responses folks

    Think i may move to a 5/3/1 routine and make sure i have one day off now and just do 3 cardio sessions a week.

    Will then make sure i get plenty of sleep, eat right and accept i wont get any stronger for the next 3-6 months but will look to shave quite a bit of time off my running distances
     
  7. Freestyler

    Freestyler Purple Belt

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    I'm not as long distance as you but I do run a lot w/ my dog(s), bike occasionally, along with lifting and ice/roller hockey. I squat variant everyday. I don't personally feel weakness from involving my legs in everyday-type-activity.

    Last week was:

    Mon-
    AM -- 3 mile run
    PM -- DL, OH squat, Chins/Curls

    Tues
    PM -- BP, Front Squats, Rows and 3 round Heavy Bag

    Wed
    AM -- 3 mile run
    PM -- Roller Hockey

    Thurs
    PM -- 10 mi bike ride; quick about 3-3:40 minute pace.

    Fri
    AM -- 3 mile run
    PM -- Squat, Straight Leg DL, Military/Shrugs

    Sat
    AM -- bike/run brick

    Sun
    PM -- Ice Hockey

    EDIT: Every week for me is different slightly... I like it that way but it is hard to get to lifting goals if you cannot stay consistent. I'd love to do a thousand club run but then I would obvi have to cut back my cardio.
     
  8. JosephDredd

    JosephDredd Gold Belt

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    Now that I've been experiencing how amazing i is to find a program that fits your goals I can really see how stupid I was (and how I spun my wheels) when I would try to mix and match programs. I pretty much wasted years.

    Heres my advice:

    1. Find a running program.

    2. Lift Power to the People or the 3-5 Method, remembering that less weightlifting is more.

    3. Get better at running and get stronger.
     
  9. ironwolf

    ironwolf Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Yup, Thats about how I go about it and Ive had good success with both at the same time, obviously not elite levels but stronger and faster than most guys.
     
  10. JRT6

    JRT6 Black Belt

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    I DL and squat on the same day which frees up a day for running.
     

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