Leglocks are inherently dangerous submissions, right?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by johndhi, Oct 11, 2013.

  1. johndhi

    johndhi If you love a flower, don’t pick it up.

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    Hey guys, I was glancing at the Palhares thread here and want to take a slightly different look at it.

    In BJJ (it has been a few years since I practiced BJJ though so I'm asking you guys), you can't do any kneebars or turning submissions up until brown or black belt tournaments, right? Like, even purple belts aren't allowed to crank on each others' knees. Why? because those sorts of holds are inherently dangerous and tend to lead to injuries, and in particular, injuries that are difficult to recover from.

    So the fact that Palhares is frequently applying those subs makes it more likely his opponents are going to get injured. Is the UFC really just blaming him for being a master of dangerous subs? IS it not HIM, but the submissions that are dangerous?
     
  2. neutralmilkh

    neutralmilkh White Belt

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    He's not letting go when people tap and in previous cases he has cranked/squeezed harder.

    People get caught or catch others in leg locks all the time. 99% of them aren't ****s about it and let it go when the other person taps.
     
  3. johndhi

    johndhi If you love a flower, don’t pick it up.

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    Is this true? I've been in a couple of leglocks applied by newbies and they hurt bad. Didn't rip anything but it was a lot easier to get hurt that way.
     
  4. KJGould

    KJGould Silver Belt

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    Palhares is an inherently dangerous grappler.
     
  5. HHJ

    HHJ Jeg reiser til mørkets dyp der alt er dødt.

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    if he held onto an armbar i think it would be the same honestly. wed all have the same reaction to that...wtf let go allready
     
  6. TheSubmissionCh

    TheSubmissionCh Green Belt

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    He let go in a second. How quickly is one supposed to let go? A second is too long; get out of the sport if a second is too long. Go knit or collect pokemon or something.

    Get real. If you have a problem with submissions, get out of my sport. - E
     
  7. Jackson 2012

    Jackson 2012 Orange Belt

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    Anyone denying that he deliberately held on to the submission is delusional. It's not his first, second or even third offence.

    He's an amazing grappler, and is rightly feared for his leg lock game, but he took a chance and it backfired. Suck it up and take your punishment.

    Apply the submission until you make your opponent tap. If you then crank it harder, trying to cause a deliberate (and potentially career threatening) injury after they have already tapped, you don't deserve to be in the sport.
     
  8. Knock Out Ned

    Knock Out Ned el mero mero

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    I like Psyduck.
     
  9. Leify

    Leify Ebb and Flow

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    All joint locks are inherently dangerous. Getting your shoulder shredded by a kimura is not fundamentally different than getting your knee shredded by a heelhook, and they are both going to take a lot of time and possibly surgergy to heal.

    Why the IBJJF has such a pansy attitude towards leg locks at the lower belt levels is their own business, and doesn't necessarily speak to certain submissions being super dangerous.
     
  10. HHJ

    HHJ Jeg reiser til mørkets dyp der alt er dødt.

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    if he had merely shutdown his game like brendan shaub,he wouldnt be in the mess hes in now
     
  11. nostradumbass

    nostradumbass Gold Belt

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    There is a purpose to tapping and it isn't an invitation for the other guy to crank harder. Having injury-causing subs as your specialty and being a psycho who holds them too long is a bad combo. Babalu got cut after holding a sub too long 1 time, Palhares has done it more than once.
     
  12. Mike Piekarski

    Mike Piekarski Blue Belt Professional Fighter

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    Joint locks are designed to damage some part of your opponent's body. All submissions are inherently dangerous. Leg locks can be trained safely as any other submission.
     
  13. virtuoso

    virtuoso Blue Belt

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    The average human reaction time is between .15 or .30 seconds. It should not have taken him a second to let go. But, to me even, that is a moot point.

    Here is the main issue. Once you have a submission locked in and your opponent is tapping, do you keep cranking on it or leave it locked in where it is and let the referee stop you? See, I think the latter is the correct thing to do.

    If I get an armlock in competition and stretch it to the point of my opponent tapping, do I then crank it additionally? No. He's tapping. I've already won. All I have to do is hold it there and wait for the referee to step in and declare that he's tapping and I've won. No need for me to crank it additionally and injure my opponent. And that is where the issue lies.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2013
  14. Torrid

    Torrid Cunning Linguist

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    What about the seconds before when Pierce was tapping? frantically tapping? yelling?

    You should get off Rousimar's nuts - T
     
  15. Red Eyed Buddha

    Red Eyed Buddha Orange Belt

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    Being punched in the face can also lead to injuries. Being kicked in the liver, Kneed to the gut, and elbowed across the brow basically every offensive move can lead to injuries.
    I apologize, but I don't understand your point.
    He's not a master. He's very good at them, but if he had mastered the move he'd know how and when to let go. And not be "perplexed" after receiving continuous criticism. The problem is he hasn't mastered it, and shouldn't be allowed to learn by tearing apart professionals legs until he figures it out.
     
  16. o'dubhlaoich

    o'dubhlaoich Red Belt

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    This
     
  17. Red Eyed Buddha

    Red Eyed Buddha Orange Belt

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    I've actually been interested in magikarps lately.
     
  18. traficante

    traficante White Belt

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    lol sad but true
     
  19. greenmanwldcard***

    greenmanwldcard*** Purple Belt

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    I've been working on my chaizard game a lot lately. I can pull q flame tower from pretty much any angle I want now
     
  20. traficante

    traficante White Belt

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    My opinion is that if a heelhook in particular (and to some extent a toehold) is aplied in a competition setting there is a big chance that someone is going home limping.
    Kneebars and straight anklelocks I am fine with and I believe firmly that they are just as safe as armbars for example and there is no reason (as far as safety is concerned) that they shouldn't be taught to begginers.
     

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