Leg Locks/heel hooks have become a very awkward thing to watch

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Outsider524, Jun 2, 2014.

  1. Outsider524

    Outsider524 Brown Belt

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    It seems as though there is literally only one person that knows how to apply them correctly. And that of course is Rousimar Palhares.

    With him gone from the UFC I've seen at least one leg lock/heel hook attempt per card and they always make me cringe. Because it usually turns into both fighters trying to leg lock each other and it's just two grown men laying on the ground with legs wrapped around each other with awkward eye contact and throwing pillow fist because they really don't know how to apply the sub.

    Or you get the real smug fighter whose being put into a leg lock/heel hook attempt and the guy is cranking his life away but because the fighter doesn't know how to apply it correctly. So the guy feels like he's immune to pain being applied to his joints and looks tougher then he actually is . When we all know throw Rousimar in and the guy is tapping in seconds and continuing to tap for seconds after (LOL).

    Whats going on with fighters did they just give up training this properly? in the right hands it can be very effective besides Rousimar the last heel hook attempt that worked was Mir vs Brock.

    Does anyone know besides Rousimar and Mir in the UFC when was the last successfully applied leg lock/heel hook?
     
  2. Fujita

    Fujita Brown Belt

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    Simple, a lot of fighters are not good at them, there are only a few guys who are/were leg lock masters, Ken Shamrock, Masakatsu Funaki, Minoru Suzuki, Josh Barnett, Frank Shamrock, Palhares.

    BTW Mir's leg lock was a knee bar on Brawk.
     
  3. VeeEight

    VeeEight Brown Belt

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    [​IMG]

    this was last year i think
     
  4. JudoThrowFiasco

    JudoThrowFiasco Charming Quark Platinum Member

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    Jim Miller v Charles Oliveira

    Also Mir win over Lesnar was also a knee bar.

    And it's a hard technique to hit, especially when sweaty.

    Also, are you a black belt? Do you have any heel hook or leg lock submission wins?
     
  5. Zanmato

    Zanmato Black Belt

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    I guess people don't put as much emphasis on training them as other manoeuvres for various reasons: the position for applying one doesn't come up that often, you have to commit both hands to the lock when you're in a position to be struck with reasonable force, and the potential for injury in training is still very high

    I agree though that at times it can become a bit of an eye-roll move, like "hm, really? was that an honest attempt, or just something to look cool?" which is a shame
     
  6. Skydome

    Skydome Banned Banned

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    It's not really that guys are any worse at applying them, just that fighters have gotten much better at defending them.
     
  7. Sivo The Ram

    Sivo The Ram Black Belt

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    marcin held, rousimar palhares, and masakazu imanari are great at leglocks.
    but yeah i agree, most ufc fighters dont quit understand the techniques. shame, leglocks are my favorite moves
     
  8. PeterTheGreat

    PeterTheGreat Purple Belt

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    They're hard to pull off. You rarely get to train them because its so easy to hurt your partner,

    I also feel like some fighters are scared to really roll on it or crank and hurt their opponent for real and don't go as hard so they lose it
     
  9. yookfarb

    yookfarb Red Belt

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    Most fighters these days "know" how to apply a leglock, but they really don't have a solid grasp on it since it's a complicated technique.

    Back in the day, the only fighters that were even aware of the technique often had it mastered such as Barnett and Shamrock.
     
  10. Outsider524

    Outsider524 Brown Belt

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    I think thats a myth....If Rouismar can apply them on anyone even though they know exactly what his favorite move is. You absolutely have to train for that but yet it never seems to keep him from submitting people.
     
  11. dAfTiE

    dAfTiE Brown Belt

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    He's a freak though. You can bet your ass every single guy Paul Sass ever fought knew about triangles and drilled them, he still got like 10 in a row. Same with Ronda and armbars.
     
  12. Skydome

    Skydome Banned Banned

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    Palhares is the elite of the elite though. Not really a fair comparison versus the vast majority of MMA fighters. There's really only a few guys in MMA like him

    I think without a doubt the level of defensive BJJ has increased dramatically over the past 10 years. Probably more so than a guys offensive BJJ or his bottom game. So many strong wrestlers now days with a good base in BJJ, esp from top position.
     
  13. bloodyfreak

    bloodyfreak Green Belt

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    Yeah, when you see both fighters attempting leg locks on each other it's just improper technique. You have to keep your inside leg under their far side leg to prevent this.

    The truth of it though is leg locks are easier to defend than most other submissions; add in the fact that fighters are applying them incorrectly & we're less likely to see them succeed.
     
  14. Negative Zero

    Negative Zero Purple Belt

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    90% of the time that a fighter goes for a leglock, the other guy just turns around and jumps away and it's gone instantly. Most of the battle is wrapping the leg up tightly enough that the opponent can't escape immediately.
     
  15. Jamoke

    Jamoke Banned Banned

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  16. LeeOx

    LeeOx Blue Belt

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    Heel hook is my go-to move when grappling, but I stopped doing them as I was hurting sparring partners. Heel hooks can be incredibly hard to put on bigger partners, they injure frequently and can be fairly easy to escape. Some gyms ban in it in sparring, and testing out your heel hook technique in a fight isn't gonna end well.
     
  17. lowsingle

    lowsingle Banned Banned

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    most bjj schools wont teach you until youre so advanced at other subs that your "new" subs wont really get much focus

    people from other disciplines, like judokas or catch wrestlers like barnett/shamrock can hit leglocks like a motherfucker tho
     
  18. Steve08

    Steve08 American Fedor Belt

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    Few factors:

    1.) Lack of proper set-ups (e.g. heel hook to set-up kneebar)
    2.) Lack of proper leglock positioning (guys just dropping back for the legs with nothing to disguise their intentions)
    3.) Lack of awareness that if you go in looking for "just" heel hooks or toe holds, you won't get any but rather, have to use ALL leglocks in combination in the hope that you'll catch one as they defend instinctively

    Most of this boils down to lack of "specialization". Most black belts are "well-rounded specialists" but many of them just don't play the leglock game. Barnett's leglocks are fucking legit though.
    I love them, I'll send you tape of my first fight if I get a hold of one. :icon_chee
    That says more about Palhares than anything else. Nobody can stop his leglocks because he knows all the traps, set-ups, escapes, and possible reactions to a leglock better than anyone in mma (except Alan Belcher), like Ronda with her armbar.
     
  19. FenoxSky

    FenoxSky Brown Belt

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    You're annoying, you should know that most people look for leg locks just for the sake of scrambling. Not being good on them doesn't mean you can take advantage of that to get to a better position.
    I have never submitted anyone with an omoplata, but I've sweeped ton of guys with omoplatas attemps.
     
  20. Steve08

    Steve08 American Fedor Belt

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    Yeah. I typically go for a heel hook no matter what if a guy is about to pass my half guard. I rarely get it but I almost always get full guard back after the following scramble.

    Diving on leglocks in general is pretty fun, although very low-percentage haha.

    Omo is definitely well-used as a positional tool for sure. The kimura as well, but from standing, pretty much everywhere really.
     

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