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Least effective takedown

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Tony Manifold, May 9, 2008.

  1. Tony Manifold Brown Belt

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    To compliment this thread:
    http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f12/most-effective-takedown-777500/

    What takedown do you find is very low percentage but attempted all the time? One that I have really started to notice, is an outside leg hook with double underhooks. I see this all the time, guy gets double underhooks, wraps his leg outside the opponents leg and tries to drag him down. Very low percentage against all but the weakest wrestlers or judoka and people are luck more guys in MMA don't know uchimata. It seems to be a lazy attempt at a takedown and normally has be yelling, "uchi mata" at the screen when people attempt it.

    Now this is a lot different then hooking the leg on a double, which is actually pretty effective. just be clear that is not what I am talking about.

    Edit: to clear up the confusion, I meant take downs that are done poorly a high percentage of the time. In other words, take downs you see people screw up or misuse over and over.
     
  2. Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    Firemens carry.

    It is a GREAT takedown. I use it okay, and I know guys who smash fools with it, but for some reason meatheads just gravitate towards this move and they ALWAYS screw it up.

    Even meatheads get garbage double legs SOMETIMES but Ive seen so many botched firemans that I, regretfully, have to put it on this list.
     
  3. Czyivn Yellow Belt

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    The double leg.
     
  4. Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

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    I don't think you guys know what "effective" means.

    Um, you see it all the time but you think it isn't effective? Why do you think people get double unders in the first place! They then collapse the back and use the kosoto gake as a trip. It works, you admit so, so it has to be effective! I don't think your assertion that it wouldn't work against a good wrestler or judoka is correct. You can't uchi mata if you can't kuzushi and you can't turn.

    The fireman's a great throw. It transitions into a single or double pretty effectively too. It is certainly effective.

    This usually fails because of poor posture or poor timing. Dragging the rear foot, not lowering the level, shooting with the head down, not using a setup or angles.... These are common mistakes that lead to a failed shot. These common mistakes are easy to fix too. A shot is very effective when you actually do it right.
     
  5. stlnl2 Blue Belt

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    Agreed the clinch and trip works fine, which is why it gets attempted so much. The problem is its an easy TD to learn and use, which can lead to people being a bit half assed with it which leads to it missing.

    If its done right (really tight low clinch and breaking the person's base) its as high percentage as it gets, but like anything else when it's done wrong it can make a mess. I would say BECAUSE its so high percentage it gets messed up all the time by people who dont train the details enough because it will work half baked from time to time.
     
  6. Tony Manifold Brown Belt

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    Maybe most poorly used? When I say that I see it all the time, I mean that you see guys attempt it all the time and it rarely works against half way decent grapplers. Most guys just to fall for it and if you over hook his arm and turn you have uchi mata. There is a video kicking around of Karo showing that exact counter.

    I think what I really meant is "what takedown is use ineffectively most often" ?
     
  7. TKMaxx715 saggy pants

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    the one that is not set up properly
     
  8. Kuark Yellow Belt

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    You shouldnt transition to a single or double off a fire unless they are really off balance after a failed attempt because you arent positioned for it, thats what the high crotch is for.
     
  9. armtriangle Brown Belt

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    with an outside fireman's, your head would be in position form a single.

    with a regualr firemans you would be in position for a high crotch, which most ppl finish by switching to a double




    to add to the list:

    the most often attempted and failed takedown is osoto gari. but it is a solid move (as are the firemans, doubel under trip, and double)

    the take down that just sucks by design the front headlock throw, or teh judo throw where you sit on your butt and try to wheel the uke over your head (cant think of the name), but all the noobs try it and just end up on thier back.
     
  10. TalkShowOnMute dancingonthecorpsesashes

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    I use a setup similar to this for my fireman's carry...almost like a fake seoi nagi? I'm sure a judoka could say...


    Fireman's Carry
    <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/iGtt08OZNVQ&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iGtt08OZNVQ&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>


    High crotch Transition off the Fireman's Carry.

    <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gqkt10IBbto&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gqkt10IBbto&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
     
  11. TalkShowOnMute dancingonthecorpsesashes

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    Gene Mills is a pimp.
     
  12. Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

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    I use the high-c as a transition between those two.
     
  13. armtriangle Brown Belt

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    now thats an american.
     
  14. beeble Green Belt

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    this is one of my highest percentage takedowns... you must not be tripping properly, if you get the double underhooks, squeeze your opponents chest to your chest, putting him off balance backwards and you wrap your leg on the outside of his, taking his base away, he falls right away and your in half guard

    it also depends what your talking about, weither its in the gi, or no gi, in no gi i think throws are the least percentage, were as with the gi, probably a single leg, just due to the fact you can sprawl and use grips as you do so
     
  15. judofarmerbob Banned Banned

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    drop ippon. nothing says "HEY! SPRAWL AND CHOKE ME LIKE A LITTLE BITCH" quite like that move does.
     
  16. armtriangle Brown Belt

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    is that the move i referenced in post #9 where you drop to your butt and try to flip opponent over your head liek in old west movies? if so, that move is poor by design.
     
  17. Tony Manifold Brown Belt

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    Like I said earlier, what I really meant is take downs that are badly used most often. In other words most likely to be done wrong. I will see if I can edit the original post.
     
  18. Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

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    What an abortion of a thread.

    That is one of the of the most highest percentage moves for smaller guys.

    That's tomoenage. AKA the "Captain Kirk." Sacrifice throws are not the most effective moves, statistically speaking in judo. However, they can be very good in certain situations.
     
  19. Tony Manifold Brown Belt

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    A good drop ippon seoi nage is a beautiful thing. That said most of the time it is a poor attempt to get around off balancing your opponent.

    A drop ippon is more commonly shortened to drop seoi. You are talking about Tomoe Nage. I like it. It is one of my better moves but it doesn't work well with out a gi. And it is another move that is tried and failed a lot especially by newer fighters.
     
  20. Mikey Triangles Bending Joints the Wrong Way Since 1985

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    kani basami, lol
     

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