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Laverne Clark first mma fight - Shonie Carter *Video*

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by MC Paul Barman, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. MC Paul Barman

    MC Paul Barman Gold Belt Platinum Member

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    Back in 1997 boxer Laverne Clark made his debut into mma.
    Boxing out of the midwest he was struggling to find meaningful fights in boxing.

    An opportunity presented itself in a striker vs grappler match up on Extreme Challenge 4 - Clark's first mma fight.

    His opponent was a grappler named Shonie Carter making his debut as well (which is only based off of arbitrarily stating what was and was not considered an mma fight back then).
    Shonie Carter was an accomplished wrestler. Started wrestling while in grade school and by the time he was in college (U of Tenn) he was doing wrestling/judo and bjj.
    In 95 or 96 he was at the olympic trials for the wrestling team.

    His match against Laverne Clark was supposed to be a walk through.
    This was 1997 and striking wasn't considered effective in this format. Certainly not if striking was your main weapon. Liddell wouldn't be on the scene for about another year (1998).... and Maurice Smith's gift (shock) to the mma world wouldn't be felt for about a half a year later when he would beat grappler Mark Coleman.

    This isn't to say that guys like Victor Belforte and Don Frye didn't use their hands effectively - but no one viewed them as strikers.... they were grapplers who could strike. The distinction was much more prevalent back in those days. Hell, sherdog's forums main break used to be UFC/MMA/Grappling as one forum and the hodge podge "Striking" forum as the other.

    Laverne Clark was a boxer first and he was supposed to be Shonie Carter's toy for that fight. That is, until the fight actually started (and quickly ended).

    Carter was so impressed with Clark that the very next day (or, very next days) after it he started incorporating boxing (and kickboxing) into his training.

    So, here's their fight (around 3:09):

     
  2. Icelking***

    Icelking*** Blue Belt

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    Everybody knows that an elite boxer would always beat an elite wrestler, provided they're both in their prime

    [​IMG]

    Wrestlers are grapplers, which is why, they crumble once they get hit in the face. The fact that wrestlers dont know how to finish their opponents is the reason olympic gold medalists end up WWE circus circuit these days (see kurt angle).

    The problem with the so called "boxers in mma" right now is most of them are in mma either because
    1. they are old and shot
    2. or they were never that good to begin with (i,e couldn't make it big in boxing even in their prime)
     
  3. MMAmouse

    MMAmouse Brown Belt

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    Well, according to the FCFighter database (if only it was still up), Carter had at least 15 amateur fights before the one with Clarke and was undefeated.
     
  4. MC Paul Barman

    MC Paul Barman Gold Belt Platinum Member

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    Exactly.
    That's what I mean by sherdog's arbitrary standard as to what they are going to consider a legit fight (worthy of noting to the record or not).
    I remember once on these boards (a few years back) there was some dispute over a fighters record showing at Sherdog and at FCFighter databases (FCF showing more fights) and a sherdog rep (of some capacity) said that the significance of the venue (it's note worthiness) played a factor. Pretty much stating that they're not going to consider fights in basements or backyards on pro records. Despite the fact that the fights in question weren't taking place in basements or backyards.
    Laverne Clark competed in a venue called "Extreme Boxing" (around the time they were trying to get more fans interested by making it sound less like grappling).... and that Extreme Boxing venue is on his record, and that was a 1 and done event (To my understanding).
     
  5. BIGthingsSON

    BIGthingsSON Blue Belt

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    Is that right? Lol, I got a feeling you've NEVER trained a day in your life, in any form of combat.
     
  6. TheRainSong

    TheRainSong Purple Belt

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    Huge boxing fan here but you;re going a little overboard with that one sir.
     
  7. Graciebarra 847

    Graciebarra 847 Blue Belt

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    Back in the 90's I seen plenty of Shonie carter's fights live at a place called Tropicana's. I can tell you now that Shonie never once used bjj in a fight in those days! Either he didn't know bjj or was poor at it. The bjj scene in Chicago in those days was almost non-existant.

    His most dangerous weapon even in those days was the spinning backfist! He was a kickboxer before he fought clark and He had some nice judo throws also.

    As far as boxers being able to beat MMA fighters on a regular basis I cannot believe how gullible people still are. Laverne clark was a shittier boxer than art jimmerson, Melton Bowen and Ray Mercer yet he had more success than those guys!

    Just because someone is a better boxer doesn't mean they will do better in the cage!
     
  8. Sharkhunter

    Sharkhunter Purple Belt

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    we have yet to see a GOOD boxer in MMA. We only see guys that have no future in boxing going into MMA. Considering how well Liddell has done with nothing but a sprawl and very shitty boxing who knows what would happen. And PLEASE don't tell me a good sprawl is imposible to learn if u spent your life boxing
     
  9. MMAmouse

    MMAmouse Brown Belt

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    By the way mucho thanks for posting this video up Barman. I've been wanting to see it for years but it has never surfaced until now.
     
  10. MC Paul Barman

    MC Paul Barman Gold Belt Platinum Member

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    This is a flat out fucking lie.
    Graciebarra.... I'm calling you a liar.
    You're making this shit completely up.

    Shonie was not in any sense of the word a striker going into this fight.
    I read the article in a karate mag the month after this fight happened where Carter was saying that it was BECAUSE of this fight that he started striking.
    I am well aware via direct and indirect means that Carter had been an elite wrestler (starting around the age of 11, 12 or 13) as well as being well involved with both judo and bjj by the time he was at the U of Tenn.

    Don't you fucking dare tell anyone about your thoughts of their "gullibility" when you come here and outright fucking lie.

    You're a fucking liar. At the best, you're an ignorant moron who is bothered by the fact that an accomplished grappler got beat in an event where Clark was being set up to lose his debut.
     
  11. MC Paul Barman

    MC Paul Barman Gold Belt Platinum Member

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    No reason to even engage with GracieBarra -
    He's just a liar about the whole thing.

    Joins here in 2010, "knowledge drops" about being at early Shonie Carter fights (which is complete BULLSHIT).... I was at an event were Carter was many years back.... and we're talking about a handful of people in attendance. And if he was at the event that I was at (or any event around those times when the announcers used to go on and on and on about each fighters background.... to build up/sell the fight) he'd know damn well the background of Carter. Not spew some lie about Carter having a kickboxing background.
     
  12. MC Paul Barman

    MC Paul Barman Gold Belt Platinum Member

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    Hey GracieBarra....
    I wonder if you're that moron with the big "GracieBarra" sticker on the back of his car window who was coming up from IL into WI only to get pulled over by a state trooper on I-43 for speeding.
    Then crying his little bitch eyes out to not get ticketed.

    If not you then someone you know.
    My friend was the state trooper - this happened last summer. IL plates, greezy looking slime ball with fucking oakley shades and this huge GracieBarra sticker on the back window:

    GB: "aaawww dood!! you can't ticket me bro!!! I'm fuckin' sorry bro"
    ST: "stop calling me, 'bro'
    GB: "my bad, my bad"
     
  13. Fisticuffa

    Fisticuffa Purple Belt

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    lol looks like this Graciebarra guy just got owned.

    So many of these ultimate fightin' kids these days think that the Boxing forum regulars know nothing about MMA when in fact some like Kid McCoy were involved in the earliest days of the sport before some of these kids were even born or when they were busy watching Brock kissing Kurt Angle in the WWE.

    Good thread by the way, didn't know anything about this stuff.
     
  14. MC Paul Barman

    MC Paul Barman Gold Belt Platinum Member

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    GracieBarra is about to get owned some more.
    That fucking liar deserves nothing less.
    It took me less than a fucking minute to find this online.
    If he cared to check he could have found it himself. But liars with agendas aren't so detailed.

    Enjoy:




    Link =
    CungLeEvent
     
  15. MMAmouse

    MMAmouse Brown Belt

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    Interesting to note that at the time of this bout Laverne Clark was 3-0 with 1 KO in boxing against opponents with a combined record of 13-80-2.
     
  16. MC Paul Barman

    MC Paul Barman Gold Belt Platinum Member

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    Plenty?
    You mean the 1 on his record?
    Win Carl Davis Submission (Choke) Tropicana D'Cache Club Fights - 6/5/1998 N/A N/A

    Ohh, so that explains why he won by submission (choke)?
     
  17. MMAmouse

    MMAmouse Brown Belt

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  18. Athenry04

    Athenry04 Black Belt

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    Off topic, but does anyone remember that DVD that was being sold on here years ago by pro-fighter Paul Lazenby showing Carter fighting randoms in the back room of some night club in the early mma days?
     
  19. Kid McCoy

    Kid McCoy Black Belt

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    Brutal beating.
    Nice job.
     
  20. CaliKid45

    CaliKid45 Yellow Belt

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    too bad boxing legend mercer lost to kimbo. a boxer will always get a punchers chance i always say that look at sylvia mercer. boxers lose against mauy thai guys because theyre so one sided. a onesided sport does not succede in a sport where your allowed to do multiple things
     

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