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hi bad seed,



hey, i still favor Governor Bush to win the nomination.

if you think Trump is going to be the GOP's standard bearer against Mrs. Clinton, that's great - i just think you're wrong.

- IGIT
nah, though Trump is the clear frontrunner, Rubio and Cruz are just as likely to win. But Jeb's hopes are gone and I doubt he wins even one state. And I say this as someone with tremendous amounts of pity towards him.
 
nah, though Trump is the clear frontrunner, Rubio and Cruz are just as likely to win. But Jeb's hopes are gone and I doubt he wins even one state. And I say this as someone with tremendous amounts of pity towards him.

hi bad seed,

i know Mr. Trump is currently the frontrunner, lol.

i don't think it takes Delphic powers of precognition to say "i think Trump will win". that would be like saying "i think GSP will win" after watching four rounds of GSP vs Diaz.

i get it...

...but i still think Mr. Bush will pull it out and take the nomination. it doesn't look that way now, but there's still a ways to go and Jeb has the money to do so if he fares well in South Carolina.

- IGIT
 
hi bad seed,

i know Mr. Trump is currently the frontrunner, lol.

i don't think it takes Delphic powers of precognition to say "i think Trump will win". that would be like saying "i think GSP will win" after watching four rounds of GSP vs Diaz.

i get it...

...but i still think Mr. Bush will pull it out and take the nomination. it doesn't look that way now, but there's still a ways to go and Jeb has the money to do so if he fares well in South Carolina.

- IGIT
right, but have you been keeping up with the fivethirtyeight projections? They have the most accurate odds and Bush is at 1-6% in all the upcoming states. It paints a bleak picture.
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/primary-forecast/south-carolina-republican/

Yes, he has a big war chest, but theres only so much you can do to a brand as damaged as "Jeb!".
 
right, but have you been keeping up with the fivethirtyeight projections? They have the most accurate odds and Bush is at 1-6% in all the upcoming states. It paints a bleak picture.
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/primary-forecast/south-carolina-republican/

Yes, he has a big war chest, but theres only so much you can do to a brand as damaged as "Jeb!".

hiya again bad seed,

Nate is the oracle, no doubt - then again, he's doing alot of backtracking currently on his repeated predictions that Trump would collapse. i've read him and know of his oft repeated mantra that Trump was a mirage before Iowa, where he finished 2nd and before New Hampshire, where he hammered the field.

i'm no fan of Jeb Bush, by the way....i'd far prefer Senator Cruz as the nominee.

i also see the race as incredibly fluid. if Mr. Bush places a strong third and Mr. Rubio slogs in at fourth...or if by chance Mr. Bush gets 2nd, he'll continue on and remain viable.

i'm not saying Jeb is favored to win the nomination, he clearly isn't. i'm just saying i think he'll be the one who emerges in the end.

- IGIT
 
Bush was my original pick in early 2015 to win the presidency. I thought Rubio would back down early in the race, and reconcile his relationship with Jeb. I thought a Bush/Rubio ticket would be able to defeat Hillary who seemed unstoppable back then. The problem was Trump got involved, and made Jeb look weak, and bumbling. Without the Trump effect Jeb would be the GOP candidate already. And Bush/Rubio would have easily taken the White House.
 
right, but have you been keeping up with the fivethirtyeight projections? They have the most accurate odds and Bush is at 1-6% in all the upcoming states. It paints a bleak picture.
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/primary-forecast/south-carolina-republican/

Yes, he has a big war chest, but theres only so much you can do to a brand as damaged as "Jeb!".
Agreed, Jeb is completely finished. He's simply not even liked by his own party, he has an extremely high unfavorable rating. He's not even VP material. What could possibly turn things around for him at this point? He's one of the least charismatic candidates running.
 
Nothing wrong with dropping some dough on bush if ur getting good odds...that said, i don't think he has a shot. Cruz has a legit chance of winning the nomination but not so much the general.
 
Bush was my original pick in early 2015 to win the presidency. I thought Rubio would back down early in the race, and reconcile his relationship with Jeb. I thought a Bush/Rubio ticket would be able to defeat Hillary who seemed unstoppable back then. The problem was Trump got involved, and made Jeb look weak, and bumbling. Without the Trump effect Jeb would be the GOP candidate already. And Bush/Rubio would have easily taken the White House.


I disagree. I think the Bush name is trash and it just shows how out of touch the republican establishment is to not understand that. I mean 8 years ago the democrats could have nominated a rapist and won,..it was anybody but bush. He tanked the economy and got us stuck in a pointless quagmire. That name is shit and jeb deserves to suffer for his brothers sins.
 
I disagree. I think the Bush name is trash and it just shows how out of touch the republican establishment is to not understand that. I mean 8 years ago the democrats could have nominated a rapist and won,..it was anybody but bush. He tanked the economy and got us stuck in a pointless quagmire. That name is shit and jeb deserves to suffer for his brothers sins.

Jeb's wife is Mexican, Rubio is Cuban. All 3 of them would have done extensive spanish language programming. I believe that would have peeled away enough of the hispanic vote to swing the election.
 
Jeb's wife is Mexican, Rubio is Cuban. All 3 of them would have done extensive spanish language programming. I believe that would have peeled away enough of the hispanic vote to swing the election.

Looking at fivethirtyeight's tool, Republicans would have needed to get about 70% of the Hispanic vote in 2012 to have won (they actually got 29%). I don't see any way in hell having any of those three would swing it even to 50%.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-swing-the-election/
 
Agreed, Jeb is completely finished. He's simply not even liked by his own party, he has an extremely high unfavorable rating. He's not even VP material. What could possibly turn things around for him at this point? He's one of the least charismatic candidates running.
The path for Jeb! is this:
1. Keep spending lots of money to break Kasich
2. Allow Rubio to Rubio himself out of the race
3. start picking up establishment delegates
4. Get to a contested convention - convince party that they still hate Trump and Cruz more.
 
Hillary is not Obama. And they got 29% with Mitt Romney, (the whitest white man ever).

OK, but the issue remains. How big of a difference do you think it'll make? The notion that minorities vote for people of the same ethnicity or race is very common but not well-supported. I'd be very surprised if any of the three you named could get 40%, and I wouldn't expect any of them to swing any states on that basis.
 
The path for Jeb! is this:
1. Keep spending lots of money to break Kasich
2. Allow Rubio to Rubio himself out of the race
3. start picking up establishment delegates
4. Get to a contested convention - convince party that they still hate Trump and Cruz more.
When is all this supposed to happen by? Jeb is polling at 4% nationally, he doesn't have time to play a long game. If he doesn't show signs of life in SC he's already going to be facing calls to drop out. And the chances that the GOP would try to ram another Bush down our throat after 2000 are zero, especially with the anti-establishment sentiment we've been seeing. Jeb is so disliked and damaged at this point that I don't even think the "establishment" vote would all get behind him.
 
When is all this supposed to happen by? Jeb is polling at 4% nationally, he doesn't have time to play a long game. If he doesn't show signs of life in SC he's already going to be facing calls to drop out. And the chances that the GOP would try to ram another Bush down our throat after 2000 are zero, especially with the anti-establishment sentiment we've been seeing. Jeb is so disliked and damaged at this point that I don't even think the "establishment" vote would all get behind him.
It has to happen by the convention. Bush won't be dropping out anytime soon. He's got a lot of money. He's getting the whole dynasty on the campaign trail now. Even if he won't win, at this point he sees himself as fighting for the party against Trump. He'll stick around long past when he's not viable. He has the resources to play the long game. And that's the only game he can play because he has zero momentum and almost no delegates. He has to pick up enough that, if Rubio and Kasich were to drop out, he can pick up the majority of their support and get into a contested convention.

Granted this isn't likely to happen, as chances are Rubio doesn't fail so hard he becomes Perry. And Rubio is the better establishment candidate. But there's a decent chance Rubio keeps flubbing to the point where he ruins himself. And that's what Jeb! is playing for at this point. A war of attrition with the other establishment followed by a appeal to being the least bad choice among him, Trump, and Cruz come convention time.
 
OK, but the issue remains. How big of a difference do you think it'll make? The notion that minorities vote for people of the same ethnicity or race is very common but not well-supported. I'd be very surprised if any of the three you named could get 40%, and I wouldn't expect any of them to swing any states on that basis.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. Early last year I had predicted There would be an eventual Bush/Rubio ticket. It was my sense that together with Bush's wife the 3 of them campaigning in spanish would have captured enough of the hispanic vote to win. I think there is a difference between having the same ethnicity, and speaking the same language. We trust more the people who speak our language.

The Bush/Rubio reconciliation didn't happen, so I think it's pointless to split hairs. Anyone can attach numbers to things, but the only one that matters in prediction is how much money would you wager. I would have bet $1000 on Bush/Rubio. But, again it's pointless to talk about who would have won a bet that can't happen.
 
It has to happen by the convention. Bush won't be dropping out anytime soon. He's got a lot of money. He's getting the whole dynasty on the campaign trail now. Even if he won't win, at this point he sees himself as fighting for the party against Trump. He'll stick around long past when he's not viable. He has the resources to play the long game. And that's the only game he can play because he has zero momentum and almost no delegates. He has to pick up enough that, if Rubio and Kasich were to drop out, he can pick up the majority of their support and get into a contested convention.

Granted this isn't likely to happen, as chances are Rubio doesn't fail so hard he becomes Perry. And Rubio is the better establishment candidate. But there's a decent chance Rubio keeps flubbing to the point where he ruins himself. And that's what Jeb! is playing for at this point. A war of attrition with the other establishment followed by a appeal to being the least bad choice among him, Trump, and Cruz come convention time.
The party will make it very clear to him soon that he is not in fact fighting for his party and is only hurting it. Unless he picks up some momentum by Nevada at the latest he's gone IMO.
 
The party will make it very clear to him soon that he is not in fact fighting for his party and is only hurting it. Unless he picks up some momentum by Nevada at the latest he's gone IMO.

Jeb will probably stay in the race just to hurt Rubio's chances. It's one thing to stab a man in the back, but to stab him in the back with a golden sword that was a cherished gift....

bush-rubio%20sword.JPG
 
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