Late stoppages on MMA submissions and dangers of blood chokes

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Drew Foster, Jan 13, 2015.

  1. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    I caught a couple old fights and saw some pretty bad ref stoppages. How long would someone have to be out cold while still getting choked like this before there could be some serious consequences?

    GIFs here are basically real time speed I think.

    Milton Vieira vs Sterling Ford
    [​IMG]

    Kim Couture vs Sheila Bird
    [​IMG]

    Also, this isn't a rhetorical question, but how is the following stopped by a ref without a tap, but the latter wasn't? Is it just up to each judge's discretion?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2015
  2. Dayman1984

    Dayman1984 Purple Belt Platinum Member

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    On the first one (Vieira and Ford), the legs went slack when he went unconscious but the ref wasn't looking there. I'm not saying that's wrong, as I think the ref was trying to look at his eyes to see if he was still conscious but it must have been tough with the position they were in.

    I'm not sure how long hypoxia has to occur before permanent damage sets in, but given the amount of blood the brain requires to function properly, I'd say it's best to tap as soon as you see those little tweety birds flying in your vision and live to play another day.
     
  3. mr violent

    mr violent Orange Belt

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    can you upload the third image to something other than photobucket?
     
  4. emperor

    emperor Red Belt

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  5. Dayman1984

    Dayman1984 Purple Belt Platinum Member

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    Well then I guess that's the benefit of using blood chokes in a self-defense scenario. The person goes out, you let go and get away, they wake up and say "what the fuck!?"
    :icon_lol: and then go home embarrassed when the memory comes back.
     
  6. mr violent

    mr violent Orange Belt

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    sometimes they pee themselves too, so you can get a good laugh in.
     
  7. seatea

    seatea Black belt in Shotacon karate.

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    I think the danger is minimal; the rule of thumb is that the brain can go without oxygen for around five minutes before damage starts to occur.
     
  8. Zankou

    Zankou Muscle and Hate Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    The real danger is the Garner effect, meaning you choke out somebody who has preexisting heart and respiratory problems, and/or is extremely obese, and they don't regenerate.

    For a normal healthy person, choking out should not pose a problem, particularly if you are a healthy athlete.
     
  9. seatea

    seatea Black belt in Shotacon karate.

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    Lol, I was about to Google Garner effect, assuming it was some medical thing before I finally twigged onto your meaning. That being the case the real danger (though still small) lies in low-level MMA, BJJ and Judo, where poorer physical condition meets nonexistent medical checks meets bad reffing.
     
  10. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Just fixed it. It's Frank Mir vs Tim Sylvia where the forearm breaks
     

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