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"LANCE" 30 for 30...is ESPN seriously trying to resurrect this chode's relevance?
- Thread starter brackis1
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Mostly on character.
Ulrich is an arrogant asshole, while Zabel was the quiet,reserved guy.
Cycling in the 90s-00s is tainted anyway, but i'd lie if it wasn't fun to watch these doped-up dudes.
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Ullrich was never an arrogant asshole. Quite the opposite. He could have beaten Riis in 96 and won as a non-leader leader in 97. Aside from not doping to the same degree, Ullrich was a much more talented GC rider than Armstrong. His weight problems were grossly overstated and just fallout of the 98 TdF. Ullrich's only fault as a rider is that he naturally was 170+ Lbs, which is getting heavy for a GC rider. He rode an amateur mountain time trial that was also attended by Simoni, a multiple Giro winner and noted climber. Simoni had just retired and Ullrich still shredded him in the time trial. Armstrong in comparison, never time trialed well later in his career after he had so much heat on him.
Zabel was never an asshole either, which sprinters seem pretty notorious for being. People really need to remember that both Zabel and Ullrich came from behind the iron curtain, east germany. Individuality was not stressed under the curtain. I don't know if you will find a strong personality athlete that came through that system.
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Ulrich is from my neck of the woods (Rostock) and while he was quiet & reserved he supposedly became a huge asshole especially after the Doping allegations.He became an alcoholic, did his fair share of coke, had multiple run-ins with the law.
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/jan-ullrich-problems-started-not-see-kids-exploded-392112
A big % of Germany's successful athletes in the 90s came out of the East German system.
I've got to watch the doco.
It boggles my mind that, from what I can recall, a lot of teammates that Armstrong threatened to destroy for accusing him of cheating seem like they're back to being pals with him. Didn't he threaten to destroy Hincapie too at one stage? Or am I mistaken?
It boggles my mind that, from what I can recall, a lot of teammates that Armstrong threatened to destroy for accusing him of cheating seem like they're back to being pals with him. Didn't he threaten to destroy Hincapie too at one stage? Or am I mistaken?
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the 30 for 30 on Bruce Lee is infinitely better.
very interesting.
very interesting.
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That kind of bums me out some since Jan was one of my favorite riders when I was really into cycling. I thought he was through his troubles following his dwi. I suspect that Jan was always the kind of guy that needed structure around him to stay on path. My favorite riders were Ullrich, Botero, Bettini, and FdB. I think things are cleaners now because more younger riders are showing themselves earlier. I am curious as to what Evenpoel does.
I got into road cycling through a supervisor I had who was a fan. This was around 2000. I knew of the tour but thats about it. I ended up going full into riding since the cardio was great to compliment my other training. After reading a ton of books before he came clean I must say Lance was a jerk to all who dared question him. I dont care about the cheating since it is a part of the sport. I cared about the destroying of peoples lives to cover up his BS
I became a huge fan of the sport though the years reading books about the history and even watching old races. My second beef with lance after you put aside the going after people was that he never raced the other races when he was at his best. The great riders raced the giro ot the vuelta. also handful of other races.
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I got done watching the whole thing. There are a lot of important things that got glossed over. No mention was made of Lance showing up at a bar to try to stop Hamilton from testifying. That was clear witness tampering.
Floyd was made to look bad but he was the only person that pulled off the band aid and tried to clean up cycling. The fact that Lance still won't talk with Floyd speaks volumes of what he really thinks behind closed doors. Lance never was for cleaning up the sport.
The cortisone positive by Lance at the 99 Tour de France was not from saddle cream like it was portrayed. It was much too high and a back dated doctor's prescription was created to cover it up.
Lemond was made to look more vindictive than he was. The quote that they brought up of him saying that Lance was the biggest miracle or the biggest fraud was pretty well known what he meant because it came out when it was discovered what Lance's relationship was with Dr.Ferarri, a known doping doctor. Lemond has always been very cognizant of how the system makes it hard for riders not to dope and sympathetic towards riders put in a bad situation.
Nothing was brought up about a representative of Oakley sunglasses ,a sponsor of Lance, leaving a message on her answering machine saying she hopes someone with a bat bashes her head in. it all got pretty ugly at times.
The first lawsuit with SCA insurance about them not wanting to pay him his prize money was misleading. Lance took out insurance policies which were literally bets on himself to win the tour de france and consecutively. It was like going to an insurance company and making a bet instead of going to Las Vegas. They got some of their money back eventually when he was stripped of his wins but it didn't include compounding interest or anything like that. Lance came ahead on these insurance bets even though he eventually had to pay the amounts back.
Lance was always more afraid of these insurance companies than UCI or USADA or any other sporting agency due to the fact the sporting agencies were corrupt or incompetent and didn't have the incentive of trying to recover millions of dollars. The insurance companies had the money and reasons to dig deep into his personal life.
Lastly, I don't know how this doesn't get brought up but there were two organizations, Livestrong.com and Livestrong.org. The org was the foundation and .com was a commercial entity owned by Lance and his business friends. The reason the two were named similarly was so that money that was thought to be going to the foundation was going into the pockets of Lance and his friends. To me, that should be something that bothers the hell out of any cancer supporter.
Floyd was made to look bad but he was the only person that pulled off the band aid and tried to clean up cycling. The fact that Lance still won't talk with Floyd speaks volumes of what he really thinks behind closed doors. Lance never was for cleaning up the sport.
The cortisone positive by Lance at the 99 Tour de France was not from saddle cream like it was portrayed. It was much too high and a back dated doctor's prescription was created to cover it up.
Lemond was made to look more vindictive than he was. The quote that they brought up of him saying that Lance was the biggest miracle or the biggest fraud was pretty well known what he meant because it came out when it was discovered what Lance's relationship was with Dr.Ferarri, a known doping doctor. Lemond has always been very cognizant of how the system makes it hard for riders not to dope and sympathetic towards riders put in a bad situation.
Nothing was brought up about a representative of Oakley sunglasses ,a sponsor of Lance, leaving a message on her answering machine saying she hopes someone with a bat bashes her head in. it all got pretty ugly at times.
The first lawsuit with SCA insurance about them not wanting to pay him his prize money was misleading. Lance took out insurance policies which were literally bets on himself to win the tour de france and consecutively. It was like going to an insurance company and making a bet instead of going to Las Vegas. They got some of their money back eventually when he was stripped of his wins but it didn't include compounding interest or anything like that. Lance came ahead on these insurance bets even though he eventually had to pay the amounts back.
Lance was always more afraid of these insurance companies than UCI or USADA or any other sporting agency due to the fact the sporting agencies were corrupt or incompetent and didn't have the incentive of trying to recover millions of dollars. The insurance companies had the money and reasons to dig deep into his personal life.
Lastly, I don't know how this doesn't get brought up but there were two organizations, Livestrong.com and Livestrong.org. The org was the foundation and .com was a commercial entity owned by Lance and his business friends. The reason the two were named similarly was so that money that was thought to be going to the foundation was going into the pockets of Lance and his friends. To me, that should be something that bothers the hell out of any cancer supporter.
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He did race in some classics and rode Dauphine Liberea every year. I think he got pipped by Micheal Boogerd or Erik Dekker in two classics at the line after his return from cancer. He was a good classics rider but not good enough to ride people off his wheel or out sprint them.
Lemond was the first person to start to ride fewer races during a year to prep for the TDF. He couldn't recover as well after being shot by his father in-law in a hunting accident that left a bunch of lead pellets in him. A regular race schedule would have left him wore out by July. Lance could have raced more though and there are a few riders that won the Giro or the Vuelta the same years they won the TDF. You either use the Giro as training for the TDF or try to keep your form as much as possible after the TDF for the Vuelta. You can't really peak for two 3 week stage races.
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On the topic of Livetrong, they got off easily in this documentary. It was largely a vehicle for Lance's ego, job for his friends and the money laundering scam that I described in an earlier post. Oh, when any reporter wanted to investigate what exactly all of that money was going to, they attacked full throttle pulling in political favors and legal threats.
https://www.outsideonline.com/1912911/our-fight-lance-and-livestrong
What boggles my mind is how his business managers came off (Stapleton and Knaggs). These guys are utter pieces of shit. Do you think Pharmstrong had the time and skills to go after all of these people? It was these goons that did the dirty work and ripped people. These motherfuckers can eat shit and live.
And on this topic, Thom Weisel (team owner) absolutely dodged disaster multiple times.
It's funny how the people that told the truth and want a cleaner sport are the ones made to look the worst.
Re: Greg LeMond
There is only one reason Lance hates Greg so much and it's because he knows he was clean. I'm surprised that the doc didn't go into the fact that Lance went to Lemond's ex-teammates and tried to bribe them to lie that Greg doped. He allegedly offered $250,000 to an ex-Renault teammate, who actually was in bad shape financially and needed the money. Even he said no, he wouldn't lie. Lance is pissed that Greg could win the tour 3 times clean. Off the top of my head I can only think of two tour winners since LeMond that weren't linked to doping.
Don't follow cycling closely at all but will follow the TdF more so just in case they come up in my pub quiz..
I vaguely recall Lance participating in the Giro and Vuelta but using it as prep for TdF. I thought he'd show up and while ride, not push crazy hard for a GC win or the like. Almost riding as a support rider to get some kms in
