lactic acid

Discussion in 'Dieting / Supplement Discussion' started by grayson, Jan 7, 2006.

  1. grayson

    grayson Orange Belt

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    whenever youre working out and you feel your body burning, is it lactic acid building up in there. i THINK thats what i remember from high school biology, but im not sure. and if so, are there any supplements you can take to lessen the lactic acid buildup and make you be able to last longer in a workout?
     
  2. fat_wilhelm

    fat_wilhelm Black Belt

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    Yes and yes. Creatine. It increases the body's production of ATP. ATP fuels muscle contraction, but only for a short period of time, after which, glycogen burning kicks in, the byproduct being lactic acid. By enhancing your body's own ability to make ATP, you are lessening the effects of lactic acid.
     
  3. GreenRecon

    GreenRecon Swift, Silent, Deadly

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    Phosphorus supplementation has been shown to decrease blood lactic acid levels during exercise. Also creatine, which prevents the buildup of lactic acid by delaying glycolysis.
     
  4. Rjkd12

    Rjkd12 Certified Bastard

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    I think the best way would be to raise your lactate threshold. I haven't read any data stating how much those things can affect lactate buildup. Lactate buildup rasies the local pH. At a high enough pH your muscles stop contracting, the "burn" is just an indicator of this happening. I think many people give up due to the burn, much sooner than before their muscles stop contracting. I think working through the burn, for the vast majority of people, would be better.
     
  5. jerseygrappler

    jerseygrappler Brown Belt

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    go buys some tums in the store and your lactic acid build up will be much less
     
  6. ChowTime100

    ChowTime100 Green Belt

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    The new EAS Phosphegen Elite is suppose to lower lactic acid build up.
     
  7. bacon

    bacon Silver Belt

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    I've heard (disclaimer) that stretching post workout will help.
     
  8. Nimrod321

    Nimrod321 White Belt

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    Phosphegen Elite is just a double dose of Phosphagen HP + Beta-Alanine for double the price. Sounds like a marketing scam or this Beta-Alanine is a miracle drug. I'll have to do some more research on it.
     
  9. Lard-ass

    Lard-ass Sodomizer

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    With risk of stating the obvious, GET BETTER CARDIO.

    Lactic acid occurs because of your body cant transport oxygen to the muscles fast enough.
    Better cardio = better oxygen absorption.
     
  10. TitoIsTheMan

    TitoIsTheMan Green Belt

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    Sorry my friend, but you seem to be a little misguided. ATP or Adenosine Triphosphate is the energy of a cell. It allows for muscular contraction but a muscles supply of ATP is used up rather quickly during a hard set of squats or curls. Your muscle cells then turn to glycogen to provide energy for contraction. The by-product of glycogen metabolization is lactic acid, giving you the "burn" you feel in the muscle.
     
  11. Lard-ass

    Lard-ass Sodomizer

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    First of all, my impression was that grayson didnt mean lifting wieghts by "working out".
    If he meant lifting, then of course I stand corrected. Although lifting heavy w low reps, lactic acid is a minor concern...


    If he meant doing martial arts ore some other stuff, then my advice still holds. Cause then your oxygen absorption is essential for how hard you can train without lactic acid is building up.
    And if he meant this, then any advice to buy supplements instead of working out more/doing more cardio, is kinda backwards.
     
  12. TitoIsTheMan

    TitoIsTheMan Green Belt

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    You are partly right. Increasing one's aerobic capacity will decrease the amount of lactate in the muscle due to more oxygen getting to the muscles, but lactate build up is not directly caused by a lack of oxygen. It is simply a by-product of a chemical reaction. To improve your lactate threshold, do the following: The aim is to saturate the muscles in lactic acid (sounds almost counter-productive, don't it?) which will educate the body's buffering mechanism (alkaline) to deal with it more effectively. The accumulation of lactate in working skeletal muscles is associated with fatigue of this system after 50 to 60 seconds of maximal effort. Sessions should comprise of one to five reps (depends on the your ability) with near to full recovery.
    Training continuously at about 85 to 90% of your maximum heart rate for 20 to 25 minutes will improve your LT. (lactate threshold) A session should be conducted once a week and commence eight weeks before a major competition. This will help the muscle cells retain their alkaline buffering ability. Improving your LT will also improve your tlimvVO2max.
     
  13. Lard-ass

    Lard-ass Sodomizer

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    You
     
  14. Rjkd12

    Rjkd12 Certified Bastard

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    You guys are both partly right. You don't build up lactic acid becaue the body doesn't get enough oxygen. What I'm arguing may seem like semantics, but its slightly more correct.

    Work with me here and assume that training doesn't make a difference. When you move your muscles, the intensity determines what energy system you use. If you need energy quickly, hydrogen ions are produced faster than they can be utilized by the electron transport chain and build up. The way the body gets rid of this is by having pyruvate pick them up, therebye converting it into lactic acid (in skeletal muscle anyway). So, its not the speed of aquiring oxygen that matters (that is the same) its the amount of "left over" or "by product" of making energy quickly.

    Now, if he does exercise more, he can increase blood flow to the muscles and then allow more H+ ions to go through the electron transport chain which would delay the backup of them at a given intensity. So with training you can increase the flow of H+ ions and not get as much lactic acid, but this has nothign to do with oxygen intake.

    So, my argument is its not a deficit of oxygen, but a buildup of by products in order to get as much energy on a short time scale as possible. When too much latic acid builds up, the muscle must stop contracting, and thats what happens.

    Tito, the muscle ALWAYS uses ATP, and glygocen's by product isn't only lactic acid, it can be two pyruvate assuming the buildup of H+ ions isn't present. Under low intensity the pyruvate goes along the krebys cycle to create a lot more ATP in the long run.

    Improving O2 consumption for quick energy (such as curls) is pointless as oxygen isn't used, and no matter how much you take in you will always have the backup. For aerobic work or grappling improving O2 intake is possible and will help you workout longer.
     
  15. grayson

    grayson Orange Belt

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    sorry i didnt see this again until now, but im definitely not in the shape that i want to be, i want to increase muscle mass heavily over the next few years, and maintain my body fat percentage which right now according to the wrestling coach is 10-11%. i might actually want to drop to a 9, but increase muscle mass big time is what im worrying about. and as far as cardio goes, i run 2 miles a day, i used to do 6... but now with school back in session i go with 2. my 4th period class is baseball where we do some conditioning but most of my conditioning goes on at the gym or at my friends house. im definitely not in the shape i want to be in though, i want to drop some body fat and increase muscle mass immensely. i appreciate all this help guys, thanks.
     
  16. Wiseyoda

    Wiseyoda Blue Belt

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    I've been lifting weights for 5 years now. Everytime i use creatine i seem to crap worse. Might be my body type or i dont drink enough water, not sure. Just my input guys.
     
  17. Wiseyoda

    Wiseyoda Blue Belt

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    So in closeing.... I would be right in saying "Build up your latic pain threshold" ?
     
  18. fat_wilhelm

    fat_wilhelm Black Belt

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    That said, lactic acid shouldn't be much of a concern for you if you're training in the proper way to gain mass. Your sets shouldn't be wandering much past the 6-10 rep range. Lactic acid usually builds up on so-called "burn out" sets (or so I've heard).
     
  19. Rjkd12

    Rjkd12 Certified Bastard

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    I guess to post you need to type at least 3 characters... hmm...
     

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