lack of offense in training

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by FStep, Sep 8, 2005.

  1. FStep

    FStep Brown Belt

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    i've been doing bjj for about 3 weeks now and i love it and seem to be learning a lot etc but the problem i have is that the only class i'm able to make is all people with over a year experience so obviously i get my ass kicked by everyone in there ... i think my sub defense is improving from this as it is taking people longer and longer to tap me now but i don't feel like my offensive game is getting anywhere when we roll because i'm just unable to get any of the guys in my class with any subs that we are shown in training or really even get in position to try to sub them, can't pass anyones guard, etc the only thing i'm really able to work on when we roll is trying to avoid/get out of subs ... i'm not necessarily frustrated from getting tapped i know thats part of the learning process but i don't think i'll ever get my offense going this way

    is this the wrong class for me to be taking or ... ?
     
  2. Foolkiller

    Foolkiller You have meddled with the primal forces of nature!

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    No. You will only improve in the face of adversity. It will take you a lot longer than three weeks before you start tapping anyone. After six months if you aren't getting at least some fellow white belts to tap, then you may need to examine how you train and why you aren't progressing.
     
  3. FStep

    FStep Brown Belt

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    i don't expect to be tapping blue belts after 3 weeks but how can i really train my offensive game if i'm never in position to even attempt subs on these guys ... its one thing if i was at least able to get a mount on someone and go for an armbar and have them escape because they're better but i'm pretty much always in a position where i can't do anything other then wait for them to do something and try to avoid it so basically i can't really practice subs in order to improve them
     
  4. The Sickness

    The Sickness Ichizoku

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    improving your defense will eventually put you in the position to try some subs of your own.
     
  5. Dr. BadAss

    Dr. BadAss Guest

    There's a training we do called "S training" (Submission training). They way it goes is that one guy does 3 subs (any of his chosing), then his oppenent does three. Back and forth. Your opponent lets you get the sub with little restraint, he taps, you loosen (but not release) the sub so that he can esacape. As he escapes he usually puts himself in a bad position, so you shift over to a new sub (i.e. armbar to omoplata).

    The main key is to ALWAYS keep moving. The goal is fluidity, definitely not strength and not necessarily speed.
     
  6. colinm

    colinm Brown Belt

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    when im going with advanced guys who i obviously have no chance against i make smaller goals for myself and try to acheive them. for example, i might aim to open someone's guard, or just break their posture when they are in my guard. take the opportunity to learn from them...pay attention to what they do to you. throw a submission out there just to see how they counter it, etc. you will learn much more when you are getting your ass kicked.

    that being said, practicing offense is important...keep at it, youll have your chance to beat up on some noob
     
  7. colinm

    colinm Brown Belt

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    thats some good shit right there, ive done something similar. it looks like shawn is taking care of you guys out there :D
     
  8. Stoic1

    Stoic1 Patriot Yellow Card

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    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA

    Dude. 3 weeks into it don't worry about offense. Worry about recognizing potentially bad situations and avoiding them.

    I know exactly what is happening. You want to 'win'. You are tired of getting owned left and right. Sucks for you. Everyone started there. There ain't no shortcuts. Take your fuckin medicine and deal with it. In a few months you will be the one putting it on the 3 week noobs. But make no mistake you get to take your lumps right now.

    The shitty thing is when you realize...even after a year there are going to be guys who make you feel like a 3 week noob as they totally school your ass. BJJ has a way of crushing your ego no matter how good you think you get. You think you're pretty hot shit tapping all the white belts and getting close to your blue belt when some purple comes in and taps you out 10 times in 3 minutes. You get your blue belt and some brown belt does the same thing. You get your purple belt and some bad ass black belt does the exact same thing.

    If you can't handle this - quit now.
     
  9. Moving Shadow

    Moving Shadow You are entering my dark place

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    good post stoic1

    in defence to the thread starter, if the only people he gets to roll with have over a years head start in BJJ, as i read in another thread, is it possible that he may never be at a level competitive with the people he is rolling just now?
     
  10. David_Jacobs

    David_Jacobs TheRockBJJ.com

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    Superbeast is correct. Eevryone gets their asses kicked for the first several weeks.

    It took me about 6 months before I got an armbar on anyone. All I could do before that were a few chokes here and there.

    3 weeks is barely any time in the sport. Patience.... patience....
     
  11. 1rep_max

    1rep_max White Belt

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    I'm in the same situation. BJJ and submission wrestling for about 3 months. Have 2 tap-outs so far (one was a more experienced beginner that I seriously out-weighed, the other was closer to my weight/experience and he taped me out too).

    When I roll with more experienced guys most will pause and advise me how to improve whatever it is I am attempting (submission, escape, etc). Of course, they then proceed to switch things up and catch me with something else.

    I really don't think that experienced guys benefit as much by tapping-out beginners 'as fast as they can' over and over as they do by trying things they might not want to try against more experienced guys.

    Even without tap-outs I know I am getting better - more calm and relaxed, working at getting better position etc.
     
  12. Big Red

    Big Red Green Belt

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    That is exactly how I feel. I've learnee slightly more how to escape, sweep and defend that it entitles me to obtain superior positions. I just have the lack of skill to finish.
     
  13. TapDG

    TapDG Guest

    I had the same issue in the beggining but im thankful I got my ass kicked and fought guys more advanced and largerguys..trust me bro..you will be thankful in the long run
     
  14. wildcard_seven

    wildcard_seven Purple Belt

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    its true that it will take a lot more than three weaks to see serious improvement, but you do need to go with people near (actually, a little below) your level, so you can get the feel of finishing submissions, and experiment, and generally build your confidence.
     
  15. Throatyogurt

    Throatyogurt Guest

    3 weeks ? your gonna get your ass kicked for the next 6 months !!! dont like it quit !!!
    jiu jitsu has a way of "weeding" people out. you have to love the art and realize you just insulted most of us by saying you are frustrated AFTER 3 WEEKS!!!. go train more, be patiant, it wil al come to you one day , but you have to keep going. dont quit , quitters never get teh girls
     
  16. triso

    triso Green Belt

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    When was younger I used to get a little hung up on not getting good fast enough. Then I realized that there is plenty of time to learn. I would imagine after 6 - 12 months you will start to see a significant improvement. You just need to stick with it, and make the best of the training.

    As someone else said, try shooting for smaller goals at first. Eventually you'll be tapping people.
     
  17. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    take ur beatings, an it will come; i for one think u should work w/guys alot better than u, having those guys dominate u will sharpen ur def and ur ability to counter/recover from bad positions or sub attempts.

    when u start to work w/the smaller guys u wll be amazed at how much slower and stiff they are compared to the guys u have been getting owned by, an once u eff def their takedowns and subs u will be able to apply them because u will be more aware of the openings..and against a lesser opp u will be able to take advantage of them.
     
  18. sakufan

    sakufan Purple Belt

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    Good post. If you can't handle it, don't do it. 3 weeks is nothing.
     
  19. Matt Thornton

    Matt Thornton Amateur Fighter

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    Three BIG things in Jiu-Jitsu, that I've learned in the 6 months I've been doing it (no gi), are:

    1. Move your hips. Use your hips. They're your center of gravity, and if you notice, every move you make from the guard requires you to move your hips in some way. Don't let anyone pin your hips down. A BJJ guy with his hips pinned is equivalent to a wrestler with his shoulders pinned. Your hips should be rotating, exploding, sliding out, etc. You need to coordinate your upper body with your lower body.

    2. Wait, think, and then explode. Let's say you're going for a kimura from the guard. You have two options. You can either a) reach up, put your hands in the basic position, muscle it out and hope for the best (which will ultimately lead in you wasting a lot of energy and time), or b) wait, plan the EXACT movements your entire body is going to make, distract him, and then EXPLODE into the move. Trust me. Train repetition of techniques so you can get the form down perfectly, so that you don't need to worry about it so much in a match. I still find myself making the mistake of trying to go all-out, and muscle through submissions. You won't catch anyone good like that. Anyone who is half decent at Jiu-Jitsu knows the setups and knows the moves you're going to do. You need to wait until the right moment, then explode into the move before he can react.

    3. Conditioning plays a huge role in how you do. I'm obsessed with MMA. When I get home from school, I train. And then I do homework. Then I go to my MMA gym and train. When I get to the gym, I make myself the last guy there. And I roll with everyone and anyone I can. Guys at my gym now will roll with me when they want a workout, and they're always commenting on my cardio and conditioning. Skill will only get you so far. I'll go with guys who I can't submit in a short match, but if we go for no time limit, I catch them when they're tired, after 20-30 minutes. Just roll constantly, and condition when you're off the mat, and get your cardio up. Fatigue will make the most skilled BJJ student sloppy.

    Seriously. Just try all three of these concepts. I'm not saying you'll instantly submit everyone. But they should definitely give you significant improvement.
     
  20. phenomfan1529

    phenomfan1529 Brown Belt

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    I agree. Its gonna take longer than 3 weeks bro. When I first started at my school it was kinda the same way for me.
     

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