Kron Gracie criticises Online Belts, Gracie University, Rener and Ryron Gracie..

Hmm. The new process with in-person evaluations sound better.

But I just put all my faith in the tried and true process of grinding it out in a gym with lots of guys who are better, until you get better, and having a high ranking guy watching you in person and rolling with you for years during the whole process.

I agree. No training will match putting in work at an academy. But some people it might be all they can get. I just don't think we should act all high and mighty because it isn't something we would do. I bet you lot of people they are appreciative to have at least this option versus not training at all. Maybe wishing they lived somewhere else yet dont have the means to.

They are spreading their jiu jitsu and more power to em. No harm will come from people training online.

And I think people automatically picture a kid sitting on his computer watching vids and then getting a blue belt. They actually gotta get someone else willing to learn and follow a curriculum and then test. Good for them is all I can say.

And if you guys think about it, that is exactly what you do at an academy... you watch your instructor show a technique and then u practice it with some random person... you just have more options of sparring partners.

Sure people can just watch vids and not roll and pretend they have their blue... do you honestly believe someone like this is gonna fly to Torrance and get their black blet... u guys are jumping to conclusions
 
I agree. No training will match putting in work at an academy. But some people it might be all they can get. I just don't think we should act all high and mighty because it isn't something we would do. I bet you lot of people they are appreciative to have at least this option versus not training at all. Maybe wishing they lived somewhere else yet dont have the means to.

They are spreading their jiu jitsu and more power to em. No harm will come from people training online.

And I think people automatically picture a kid sitting on his computer watching vids and then getting a blue belt. They actually gotta get someone else willing to learn and follow a curriculum and then test. Good for them is all I can say.

It will be interesting to notice that many of those gracie onlines students have access to BJJ in their town. but choosed the other option.

some of their blue belts end up opening Gracie University Training Centre in the same city as other BBs.
 
It will be interesting to notice that many of those gracie onlines students have access to BJJ in their town. but choosed the other option.

some of their blue belts end up opening Gracie University Training Centre in the same city as other BBs.

lol now that's funny... i assume they go out of business... i honestly dont believe this either... any websites for one of these garages... id love a laugh lol
 
Maybe im ignorant and people are actually trying to cheat their way into the BJJ business and setup these garages... but i just dont see the investment and lies worth the trouble, not exactly a line of business that'll make u rich.

Or maybe it is just a guy wanting to get laid and tell girls he is a gracie blackbelt lol
 
Sure people can just watch vids and not roll and pretend they have their blue... do you honestly believe someone like this is gonna fly to Torrance and get their black blet... u guys are jumping to conclusions

There is no jumping to conclusion.

You buy the online classes and send them the video and they will grade you.

Recently, they changed their policy:


students must pass an extended hands-on evaluation with Ryron, Rener, or an authorized Gracie Academy representative at a Certified Training Center.

As before, promotion to purple belt and brown belt require an in person evaluation with an authorized Gracie Academy representative, and black belt promotion requires successful completion of a one-week live evaluation at Gracie Academy headquarters in Torrance, California.
 
All I see is a family of arrogant liars fighting over money and respect that they will never get from me anyway.

I have no horse in this race anymore.
 
Maybe im ignorant and people are actually trying to cheat their way into the BJJ business and setup these garages... but i just dont see the investment and lies worth the trouble, not exactly a line of business that'll make u rich.

Or maybe it is just a guy wanting to get laid and tell girls he is a gracie blackbelt lol

actually, they do NOT allow guys from collecting cash of training partners under the Gracie Garage program.

I think you are talking about the Certified Training Center.
 
There is no jumping to conclusion.

You buy the online classes and send them the video and they will grade you.

Recently, they changed their policy:


students must pass an extended hands-on evaluation with Ryron, Rener, or an authorized Gracie Academy representative at a Certified Training Center.

As before, promotion to purple belt and brown belt require an in person evaluation with an authorized Gracie Academy representative, and black belt promotion requires successful completion of a one-week live evaluation at Gracie Academy headquarters in Torrance, California.

Well it just seems hard to believe because how honest BJJ is about rank. It is something that cant be faked. It isnt like Karate where anyone can claim a black belt. When you roll with someone you know exactly what they are (providing you are rolling smooth and not going for the kill... as an athletic whitebelt is more than capable of tapping a slob purple belt)

But anyways, I do believe you guys, I don't support it but I guess I also don't care too much. It doesn't really upset me to know it is going on. No one can fake a belt in BJJ no matter what certificate you were given from some program.
 
I think you need to differiente between GJJ and BJJ as well.
 
wrong

Big difference between knowing a move such as a Armbar from guard and then actually applying it. BIG BIG BIG DIFFERENCE

what good is a guy in a black belt if he cant even submit or sweep a noobie?
all it does is discredit the martial art.

and on your argument about weak people or non- athletically talented guys cant get good at bjj. wrong

I have been rag dolled by smaller guys/girls (when at first glance would have no athletic potential) many many times.

step onto the mat before you judge.

Just curious if anyone has rolled with an online Gracie University blue belt. This topic pops up periodically but I don't recall if there are any first hand accounts of a live roll with an online graduate.
 
Just curious if anyone has rolled with an online Gracie University blue belt. This topic pops up periodically but I don't recall if there are any first hand accounts of a live roll with an online graduate.

I can't believe people are actually defending this bullshit. There must be a lot of deluded LARPers here.

Here's a great story I heard from a friend of mine. First place he went to train was a GJJ academy owned by a blue belt who'd gotten his belt from GU. He wants to supplement what he is learning so he goes on youtube to watch some videos. Learns the basic cross collar choke from guard. Did you know the GU blue belt curriculum contains nothing about Gi Chokes or how to defend them? Well my buddy found out when he was sparring with his "teacher", he puts on the cross collar choke from guard, the teacher doesn't defend, doesn't even know to tap, and my friend chokes him unconscious in front of the whole class. Awkward.

Thats what you morons are defending.

I've read several posts from this forum and others about rolling with GU online blue belts. Some say that the online blue belts sucked; others say they held their own.

As far as I know, the curriculum to get to the "technical blue belt" does not require any form of real sparring. They practice and get evaluated on preset moves on non-resistant or lightly-resistant partners. I believe this is the equivalent of doing "one-step" sparring or katas on light-to-non resisting opponents. And when you throw in belts just for performing these moves, I believe that's where the McDojo comparisons come in.

I do believe that from one stripe blue and on that you do have to actually roll with a fully resistant partner as part of the evaluation.

If GU was only used by those with absolutely no other options available to them, I really don't mind. But from what people have been posting, it seems that GU Certified Training Centers run by blue belts are actually popping up in densely populated areas with many great, legit gyms available. So one has to ask what type of person chooses to open a Gracie Garage and a Gracie CTC instead of going to those legit gyms. And then what kind of people are choosing to train at these garages and CTCs run by blue belts over legit gyms? With the knowledge that these CTCs don't even require actual rolling with a resisting partner in order to attain the blue belt, we can get a clue as to the types of people that these CTCs and GU online programs attract.

I think Rener and Ryron's instruction is very good. I just disagree with them selling belts online.
 
Ughghh!! I'm so MAD.. Somebody that i dont train with gave someone i dont know a BLUEBELT.....online!!!
You guys are f*cking hilarious!!

Did you get your belt online from Gracie University? No,...then who gives a shit.
 
All I see is a family of arrogant liars fighting over money and respect that they will never get from me anyway.

I have no horse in this race anymore.

I don't see how this is a fight over money.. renzo or kron's gyms are both successful and attract a very different clientele than the gracie academy Torrance/GU


I truly believe this is about ideology and protecting BJJ from being exploited.
 
So one has to ask what type of person chooses to open a Gracie Garage and a Gracie CTC instead of going to those legit gyms. And then what kind of people are choosing to train at these garages and CTCs run by blue belts over legit gyms? With the knowledge that these CTCs don't even require actual rolling with a resisting partner in order to attain the blue belt, we can get a clue as to the types of people that these CTCs and GU online programs attract.
.

what type of people?

I know some Traditional Jiu Jitsu TMA school that open their own gracie garage and now they all wear their black belts from Traditional JJ with a BJJ gi. In the area we have many great BJJ schools too. I hear from people that train at this school that it's shit.

I think it's ego! people are lazy and dont wanna get tapped. so they do "Gracie jiu jitsu" and act like they're superior when you bring up that getting a belt online is bullshit and they dont roll.
 
Just curious if anyone has rolled with an online Gracie University blue belt. This topic pops up periodically but I don't recall if there are any first hand accounts of a live roll with an online graduate.

I have, but he trained under an instructor at a gjj school. He graded up online though. He wasn't allowed to roll until he got his blue belt. He also was not allowed to use any moves that weren't in the syllabus. He came to our gym. I was a white belt with over a yrs worth of experience. I completely smashed him and was told to roll with him with one hand under my belt as I was a bit of a spaz in those days. I continued to control him with one arm. He's quit now, I'm still training, no longer a spaz.
 
lol now that's funny... i assume they go out of business... i honestly dont believe this either... any websites for one of these garages... id love a laugh lol

I don't believe it either. Who's going to a blue belt garage if there's a legit school in the area? What's the motivation? Are they charging half the price? Anybody got a link to a website to one of these blue belt GTC?

I know somebody else in this thread told a story about an instructor who got his belt through the course getting choked out by a student, but he also said he wasn't there and that was a story someone told him.
 
For what it's worth I studied the Gracie combatives program for about a year before I trained at a proper gym, I believe had I tested I could have received their blue belt or at least been very close to achieving it.

One key difference is however I would "roll" with my flatmates full force, they knew absolutely nothing whatsoever about grappling but they were all massive gym buffs and far stronger than me, eventually I got good enough that I would beat them everytime. (even got a few video'd my technique was cringeworthy looking back :redface:)

So when I stepped into the gym for my first class I was subtly quite confident that I would do ok. My first roll/s I got destroyed (the lowest guy I faced was a two stripe white), that being said when I started rolling some of the guys who had been there about the same time as me, or even slightly earlier, I would dominate the roll or occasionally tap them. I put it down to awareness, in that I had a very basic idea of what could go wrong/what the opponent might attack me with and a basic understanding of posture and escapes. I put it down to awareness because after about a month or two the people I used to dominate became much better, sometimes dominating and tapping me, now with the ones that stuck with it we are really even in terms of skill.

So... Gracie University IMO achieves what it sets out to do, in that it is a good curriculum for self defense jiu jitsu, in that against an untrained opponent, even if they are bigger you can still win/not get owned. But in comparison to holding your own against a gym trained BJJ practitioner you will fail miserably.

I think Rener & Ryron are great instructors, their material is well produced and very well taught, they have done well at promoting themselves and their style of Jiu Jitsu. Between having a roll or two with some decent BJJ guys and their early Gracie Breakdowns I might not even be doing BJJ.

However outside of the whole belt thing, what I think tends to rub people the wrong way is that they never make a good distinction between their GJJ and BJJ. Personally I could care less if they awarded people blue belts in self defence, (like how they have pink belts for womens self defence) my problem is the people who get the blue belts are blue belts in a style that sounds almost indistinguishable from BJJ. And having personally gone through their blue belt qualification series, they miss alot of stuff that an actuall blue belt should not only know but would expected to be good at before recieving their blue belt.

e.g there is nothing on the turtle, half guard, knee on belly, north south, no submission escapes, no over under clinch (it assumes you always get double unders) and there is only one guard pass. Also their blue belt curriculum has 36 techniques to learn, while the 1st stripe on the blue belt has 60 techniques, seems back to front IMO.


TL.DR - GJJ is good for what it is but will only help you against untrained opponents, well at least at the 1st (presumably most common) stage
 
They have started separating their pure-online belts from their in-person-tested belts. So I'm ok with that, as long as their in-person-tested guys truly are ready for their belt. If they give out belts when someone isn't ready after seeing them in person...well, that's on them and their standards, but I doubt they would. Personally I would rather they go further and actually use a different color scheme for their online belts - maybe borrow the kids' belt system or something similar to that.

I still think it might not be the worst idea to have the online guys compete to earn belts. Would remove any vestige of uncertainty.
 
But from what people have been posting, it seems that GU Certified Training Centers run by blue belts are actually popping up in densely populated areas with many great, legit gyms available. So one has to ask what type of person chooses to open a Gracie Garage and a Gracie CTC instead of going to those legit gyms. And then what kind of people are choosing to train at these garages and CTCs run by blue belts over legit gyms? With the knowledge that these CTCs don't even require actual rolling with a resisting partner in order to attain the blue belt, we can get a clue as to the types of people that these CTCs and GU online programs attract.

I think Rener and Ryron's instruction is very good. I just disagree with them selling belts online.

I don't believe it either. Who's going to a blue belt garage if there's a legit school in the area? What's the motivation? Are they charging half the price? Anybody got a link to a website to one of these blue belt GTC?

I know somebody else in this thread told a story about an instructor who got his belt through the course getting choked out by a student, but he also said he wasn't there and that was a story someone told him.

I'll tell you exactly who goes this route. Its a guy who wants to play BJJ, but doesn't want to put the work in, or tried to, didn't like getting his ass handed to him every day at the beginning and quit after a few months. Now he's found an online short cut. So he gets an online Belt, gets himself a CTC, puts a picture of Helio on the wall and bam, he's a Jiu Jitsu teacher! A little online marketing, some flyers and business cards around town and newbs start showing up. They don't know any better, they just want to trane UFC! Now give them a healthy dose of the Gracie Cool Aid (tm) and you have yourself a shitty little gym, you aren't really doing BJJ but who cares, your students don't know, well most of them don't for a while, then they leave, but whatever, you're online marketing firm sends you 20 new leads a week. Just be careful not to drink your own cool aid and wind up choked unconscious in front of the whole class.

You have to be kinda crazy to want to do BJJ for real, it takes a certain type of person. There are only so many of us in the world. If you are a good instructor, a good business person, and a good person overall, you'll attract students and make a decent living as a BJJ teacher for your whole life. But you aren't ever going to make hollywood money, bang models and drive a Ferrari. To do that you need to bring in a much wider cross section of society than the hardcore BJJ people.

Start an association and franchise your schools? Nah, thats pretty hard, takes access to capital, and most of your family already has that market locked down. So you water down the intro stuff, things that someone in a real school learns in a month, make a bunch of videos with 36 techniques descended from the lord our savoir Helio, sell them to the gullible online, and hold out a blue belt, the same thing those suckers shedding blood, sweat, and tears on the mats in a bjj school get! Then watch the profit roll in and make some overly long cringe inducingly defensive videos when the cognitive dissonance gets too great. As long as you never step too far outside your echo chamber you should be able to keep it going indefinitely!
 
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