ko's in mma are overrated

[ShogunTBone]

:icon_chee

Nice one.

 

[xelad1]

i just say that because i've been getting tired of hearing how cain shouldn't be fighting jds and that cain has no shot against jds in a rematch because he got knocked out. in mma, fighters are given a huge advantage in terms of finishing fights in the sense that once you knock a guy down you can jump on him with elbows and punches to finish a fight. it's frustrating to listen to. cain is a very good fighter, and a knockdown followed by shots afterwards shouldn't disqualify him from being able to fight jds again.

also for all those ppl who say cain has no shot because he got knocked out in the first fight just look at manny pacquiao and juan manuel marquez. in their first fight pacquiao knocked down marquez three times. if they fought in mma pacquiao proabably would've finished marquez with some ground and pound, but because it was boxing marquez was able to recover and the fight was a draw. after that fight they went on to have 3 other great fights.

this rematch between cain and jds should be a really good fight. i'm looking forward to it, and hopefully it delivers. both guys are great fighters.

Why are you bringing boxing into this? If that was MMA maybe Marquez would have shot for a takedown instead of boxing????? Silly to compare two sports with different rulesets and then randomly impose a rule from MMA to fit your argument.

What's next, are you going to point out every throw in an Olympic Judo match that doesn't get scored as a point but then say they could have finished with strikes?

Cain shouldn't have gotten an immediate rematch... and he didn't. Had Overeem not had his "problems" he would have been fighting JDS before Cain as well. Also people don't say that Cain doesn't have a shot because of JDS' knockout power. This idea stems from the fact that JDS has shown good TDD in the past, is seemingly competent off his back, AND has good KO power. The first fight told us nothing about JDS' ability to get up from under Cain or Cain's wrestling against JDS.

Cain is a great fighter and they should fight again, but your argument is terrible.

 

[TKimble]

"Boxing is not the sport of fighting", oh really?...why don't you get in the ring with a friend and put "comically large gloves" on and swing on each other for 3 minutes and then say if THAT'S not fighting, you have no idea what your talking about. You basically said that any form of stand up fighting whether is boxing, kickboxing or muay thai is not fighting because they wear large gloves and "giving a guy a chance to recover" (standing 8 count). Your just on MMA's nutsack, i would love to see you get in the ring with a boxer and then tell me whether thats fighting or not.

You could throw me in a ring with the world's greatest roshambo champion, and he could kick me in the balls until I die screaming. Still wouldn't make it the sport of fighting.

 

[wasp]

As usual, the topic has gone over your head.


TS is correct, we as fans put far too much stock in KO finishes. KO finishes don't always tell who the better fighter is, only who landed at that particular moment. Better fighters lose by KO all the time, 4 oz gloves + 15-25 minutes = even the best fighters on the planet can get hit once, and once is all it takes.

Did anyone think GSP wasn't worthy to rematch Serra so quickly after his KO loss?
Does anybody think Hendricks would KO Kampmann quickly in a rematch?


Fighters that possess the power to finish somebody on the feet have an advantage (JDS is the champ, he'll clearly be the fav), but this is the big leagues we are talking about here, everybody has power and anybody can finish the fight. Quick fights don't tell the whole story. There was alot we didn't get to see in the first JDS/Cain fight (grappling, takedowns, clinching, cardio, etc) why is everyone so convinced a rematch will play out exactly the same way?

Serra strength = JJ
Hendricks strength = Wrestling

Look at JDS' track record in finishing fights.

Hasnt all of his UFC bouts (the big league bouts) told the story of him being a superior standup fighter to all other opponents?

He finished Cain in the way that got him there.

His gameplan. His KO. His validation.

Dont be crediting Cain for something he hasnt executed.

 

[Jopo]

KO's in MMA are not overrated. It proves you were the better fighter on that night. No iffs ands or buts. Even if you get ko'd by a "worse fighter", they still just proved they were better than you for that night.

Although you are right, sometimes they mean more than others. Although I don't see how it applies much JDS-he's an artist. Its not like he got lucky or swings wildly.

 

[Jitsu Sniper]

The OP has the same effect of "Armbars are over-rated because you still have another arm to fight with so technically you havent lost."

GTFOH

This^^^

 

[xelad1]

As usual, the topic has gone over your head.


TS is correct, we as fans put far too much stock in KO finishes. KO finishes don't always tell who the better fighter is, only who landed at that particular moment. Better fighters lose by KO all the time, 4 oz gloves + 15-25 minutes = even the best fighters on the planet can get hit once, and once is all it takes.

Did anyone think GSP wasn't worthy to rematch Serra so quickly after his KO loss?
Does anybody think Hendricks would KO Kampmann quickly in a rematch?


Fighters that possess the power to finish somebody on the feet have an advantage (JDS is the champ, he'll clearly be the fav), but this is the big leagues we are talking about here, everybody has power and anybody can finish the fight. Quick fights don't tell the whole story. There was alot we didn't get to see in the first JDS/Cain fight (grappling, takedowns, clinching, cardio, etc) why is everyone so convinced a rematch will play out exactly the same way?

You're right, KOs don't tell the whole story. However we already know that Cain's striking is nothing spectacular. He has bad striking defense and OK striking in general. If he doesn't try taking JDS' to the ground ASAP he's going to be on the receiving end of another brutal KO.

Hendricks' KO of Kamp was more surprising because Hendricks is viewed as a wrestler with KO power, but no one envisioned him out striking or KOing Kamp. Same goes for Serra, everyone thought GSP was better on the feet so they didn't expect a KO. JDS is the better striker than Cain, I don't even see how this is debatable. Cain getting KOd by JDS on the feet shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

I would, however, be surprised if Cain KOs JDS standing. Shocked.... even for a HW fight.

 

[Zhalimar]

I have a hard time admitting that knockout wins show you were the better man that night in fights like Okami vs Boetsch or Duffee vs Russow.. The win certainly doesn't equate them as being better fighters in my book...

 

[K1HerosNakamura]

Y'all be posting in a troll thread

Getting KO'd and finished by Gnp is realistic TS

 

[TKimble]

I have a hard time admitting that knockout wins show you were the better man that night in fights like Okami vs Boetsch or Duffee vs Russow.. The win certainly doesn't equate them as being better fighters in my book...

The only way to truly determine who is a better fighter is to have the 2 guys fight 100 times and see who wins the majority of the fights and by what method. We'd also need to make sure that both guys are 100% for every fight they have or else it wouldn't be fair. You'd also have to have all the fights take place in the same city, same arena, under the same conditions, with the same judges, and the same referee. Unfortunately, human beings don't live 10,000 years, so we don't have time to prove who really is the best fighter via the scientific method. So we go with what we got.

 

[wasp]

Y'all be posting in a troll thread

my initial thoughts. then i got invetsted into it since some explanations sound like they've come from some who never scored their own knockout in real life.

haha

 

[kingskot]

"Boxing is not the sport of fighting", oh really?...why don't you get in the ring with a friend and put "comically large gloves" on and swing on each other for 3 minutes and then say if THAT'S not fighting, you have no idea what your talking about. You basically said that any form of stand up fighting whether is boxing, kickboxing or muay thai is not fighting because they wear large gloves and "giving a guy a chance to recover" (standing 8 count). Your just on MMA's nutsack, i would love to see you get in the ring with a boxer and then tell me whether thats fighting or not.

He obviously means that MMA is a closer approximation of a NHB "real world" fight, and he's correct. Just put any top pure boxing guy against a top MMA guy with no rules and you'll realize this pretty quickly.

 

[Psychojoe86]

Because of one fight KOs are overrated? Come on man

Also eat yer words when jds knocks out Cain again

 

[oknenaileme]

i just say that because i've been getting tired of hearing how cain shouldn't be fighting jds and that cain has no shot against jds in a rematch because he got knocked out. In mma, fighters are given a huge advantage in terms of finishing fights in the sense that once you knock a guy down you can jump on him with elbows and punches to finish a fight. It's frustrating to listen to. Cain is a very good fighter, and a knockdown followed by shots afterwards shouldn't disqualify him from being able to fight jds again.

Also for all those ppl who say cain has no shot because he got knocked out in the first fight just look at manny pacquiao and juan manuel marquez. In their first fight pacquiao knocked down marquez three times. If they fought in mma pacquiao proabably would've finished marquez with some ground and pound, but because it was boxing marquez was able to recover and the fight was a draw. After that fight they went on to have 3 other great fights.

This rematch between cain and jds should be a really good fight. I'm looking forward to it, and hopefully it delivers. Both guys are great fighters.

what...

 

[Sonnen Says]

Meh, whatever - - Tell that to Chuck, Lindland, Wand, etc.

 

[wasp]

....and as an overall generalized thought:

Anyone who thinks Cain isnt worthy of a rematch nor doesnt have a chance against JDS is a moron.

(I just thoroughly believe that JDS has the superior execution of gameplan compared to Cain's strengths in GnP)

 

[Ceez]

If anything then boxing has the flaw. You don't let people up in fights. That's bullshit. JDS KOd Cain. End of discussion. Cain has a good chance to win but suggesting it should be a standing 8 count is nonsense. That doesnt replicate a fight. This is fighting. JDS KOd Cain in a fight.

There's really not much more to say. Cain is my favorite HW but this is true. Also the reason that most people are drawn to MMA over boxing is simply the fact that MMA more closely resembles a "real fight" where boxing is the farthest thing from it.

 

[fedordestroyall**]

Marquez finally KO Pac in 42 rounds and each round = 3 mins.

JDS KO Cain in like 1 min in the 1st round.

 

[caps88]

He obviously means that MMA is a closer approximation of a NHB "real world" fight, and he's correct. Just put any top pure boxing guy against a top MMA guy with no rules and you'll realize this pretty quickly.

You think so?...JDS will disagree, he ONLY trains boxing and he's the UFC heavyweight champion, boxing IS fighting, so is kickboxing and muay thai, yes a pure boxer loses to a MMA fighter because MMA fighters train every aspect of martial arts but boxers train boxing, its a different sport but to say boxing is NOT fighting then that's far-fetched don't you think.

 

[SamRI]

As usual, the topic has gone over your head.


TS is correct, we as fans put far too much stock in KO finishes. KO finishes don't always tell who the better fighter is, only who landed at that particular moment. Better fighters lose by KO all the time, 4 oz gloves + 15-25 minutes = even the best fighters on the planet can get hit once, and once is all it takes.

Did anyone think GSP wasn't worthy to rematch Serra so quickly after his KO loss?
Does anybody think Hendricks would KO Kampmann quickly in a rematch?


Fighters that possess the power to finish somebody on the feet have an advantage (JDS is the champ, he'll clearly be the fav), but this is the big leagues we are talking about here, everybody has power and anybody can finish the fight. Quick fights don't tell the whole story. There was alot we didn't get to see in the first JDS/Cain fight (grappling, takedowns, clinching, cardio, etc) why is everyone so convinced a rematch will play out exactly the same way?

Agreed