KO Slam Holland vs Ontiveros

[dipstickjimmy]

What possible proof is there he did it on purpose...?? This is outlandish

The video??? If you are going to ask how can we know exactly what a fighter is thinking when they do something that is irrelevant. Its what they do that matters. Does Jon Jones know extending his arm out and his fingers pointed in the general direction of his opponents eyes could cause an eye poke? He absolutely should and a fighter is responsible for their actions. Intent is irrelevant.

 

[Raffen]

Can't believe that fight won a bonus

 

[dipstickjimmy]

I think based on the current rules, whenever a fight is finished like that it should actually be considered a no contest but incompetence gets in the way. But it's a fight so I don't care, allow it.

I agree with your assessment. Maybe head butts from a slam aren't deemed illegal? I guess we should ask John McCarthy.

I am OK if they allow it if so long as they clarify the rules.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

You win Dumbest take of day. Good job.

Kid goes out on a stretcher to the hospital. "He panicked and quit"




Anyways TS I definitely don't think kevin was intentional and it was his neck that was the injury I feel like it was more kevin's arm that caused his neck to be at a bad angle.

You may be right on the Holland one. It just got me thinking about Head Butt slams. The Tito one and Josh Burkman on Sam Morgan as mentioned above were 100% KO's caused by a head butt


Glad Ontiveros is OK.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

I think punches to the head that are deliberately trying to knock out the opponent should be illegal as well....out wait.

They're fucking fighting.

Punch to the head to KO, deliberate
Kick to the head to KO, deliberate
Knee to the head to KO, deliberate

Take down slam...illegal?

Tennis might be your sport.

I have no problem with a guy getting KO'd as it is part of the sport.

Head Butts are illegal so a KO from a head butt should be illegal.

Jon Jones got DQ'd for finishing a fight with illegal strikes. Was the fight going to end regardless? Yes. But he ended it with illegal strikes so he should get DQ'd.

Eddie Alvarez KO'd Dusting with illegal knees. If it was legal Dustin would have known to watch for knees. I think a fighter in a body lock TD wouldn't expect to get a KO blow. Has anyone ever been KO'd by a body lock TD without a head butt?

 

[dipstickjimmy]

TS is a pussy

Says the guy behind a keyboard!
Nothing says tough guy like name calling anonymously over the internet.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Wasnt a headbutt.

The injury Ontiveros suffered was a tear in one of the muscles in his neck caused by the takedown.

So I dont know why youre trying to say Holland did anything even remotely illegal.

Not saying Holland did something illegal. It just recently happened and I thought it was worth starting a conversation. So putting Holland aside what is your take on a clear Head Butt KO like the one Tito put on Evan Tanner?

 

[burningspear]

Too emotional, he knew he was out of his depth.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

The video??? If you are going to ask how can we know exactly what a fighter is thinking when they do something that is irrelevant. Its what they do that matters. Does Jon Jones know extending his arm out and his fingers pointed in the general direction of his opponents eyes could cause an eye poke? He absolutely should and a fighter is responsible for their actions. Intent is irrelevant.

Bro its an unavoidable affect of slams sometimes , what your suggesting is to remove slams from MMA cuz u cant effectively know if ur gunna headbutt someone or not when u start your slam or throw...

Intent 100% matters ...also the jon jones comparison is wrong cuz they've changed the rules to not allow ur fingers to be pointing towards your opponent at all .. They must be point up or palm up towards your opponent when pawing for distance or reaching out...they editted the rules cuz too many eye pokes were happening..these slam k.os almost never happen and are accidental as it depends how they fall together..

Taking slams out of MMA would kill the sport...and make it almost as boring as some BJJ matches as slams are illegal in BJJ competitions

 

[r-harper-1]

Says the guy behind a keyboard!
Nothing says tough guy like name calling anonymously over the internet.

I’m not a tough guy at all ( anymore ) .....I’m old and tired of people trying to add more rules ....I want it as close to a real fight as possible

 

[Prince Nephilim]

Most definitely wasn’t a head clash of any sort.

Multiple angles clearly show Hollands shoulder and clavicle smash the guy’s head, like a walnut cracker

 

[BLIND]

Josh burkman vs Sam Morgan is another example of the headbutt slam situation

 

[Bork Neslar]

The fight should be a NC.

 

[Mmmmmmma1234]

Except they then said moments after that he was completely fine. I was the suffer a severe neck injury, I wouldn't down play it. It pains me to this day 5 years later. So tha ks for the dumbest response of the day. They literally said not long after that he was totally fine.

I already do and I know alot about neck injuries i ha d asevere one myself and have a background in the chiropractic field dumbass

I swear ya talk with so much conviction about shit you know nothing about dickheads

I wish I could get even $1 dollar everytime the dumbest post winner doubles down and becomes the leading expert.


And they didn't say he was "completely fine" the report was "he wasn't suffering from a serious injury, and it was probably a muscle or joint that will be fine in a few weeks"

So once again

 

[NicholasJBasile]

After seeing the finishing Slam do you think deliberate Slams with head to head contact should be illegal?
Head butts are illegal so aside from arguing make everything legal should this be illegal? Its basically a deliberate head butt combined with a body lock TD.

Reminds me of Tito vs Evan Tanner

Is this not clearly striking with your head?
What do you think?

I would tend to say no -- getting takedowns in a fight is hard enough. It is a scary result for sure and headbutts aren't legal, but I'd put the burden on the opponent to protect themselves.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Bro its an unavoidable affect of slams sometimes , what your suggesting is to remove slams from MMA cuz u cant effectively know if ur gunna headbutt someone or not when u start your slam or throw...

Intent 100% matters ...also the jon jones comparison is wrong cuz they've changed the rules to not allow ur fingers to be pointing towards your opponent at all .. They must be point up or palm up towards your opponent when pawing for distance or reaching out...they editted the rules cuz too many eye pokes were happening..these slam k.os almost never happen and are accidental as it depends how they fall together..

Taking slams out of MMA would kill the sport...and make it almost as boring as some BJJ matches as slams are illegal in BJJ competitions

I don't have the same opinion of Slams and head butts being accidental.
Dominique Steele vs Dong Hyun Kim was a head butt but looked accidental.


Matt Lindland tried for a TD and his opponent ended up KOing him landing on top and clashing heads.

Here is a video of "Every Slam Finish in UFC History". Only four ended due to head butts. Matt Lindland and DHK were KO'd with head butts that were clearly incidental and not intentional. Two were clearly blatant Head Butts set up with a body lock, heads lined up and the opponent lifted and slammed with the attacking opponent's head lined up to collide between the mat and their own head. Tito and Burkman are the only ones that are intentional IMO. Most of the others don't have a head butt at all so slams are not eliminated. Just like head kicks are not eliminated by not kicking the head of a downed opponent.

Jones eye pokes is exactly the example. He is the reason they had to specifically state not to put your fingers in the face of an opponent which causes so many eye pokes. I think specifying lining up the heads intentionally should be a DQ IMO as it is an intentional head butt.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

I’m not a tough guy at all ( anymore ) .....I’m old and tired of people trying to add more rules ....I want it as close to a real fight as possible

Why not say that rather than name calling like a keyboard warrior? Its not adding a rule its enforcing one on the books. Head Butts are illegal.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

I don't have the same opinion of Slams and head butts being accidental.
Dominique Steele vs Dong Hyun Kim was a head butt but looked accidental.


Matt Lindland tried for a TD and his opponent ended up KOing him landing on top and clashing heads.

Here is a video of "Every Slam Finish in UFC History". Only four ended due to head butts. Matt Lindland and DHK were KO'd with head butts that were clearly incidental and not intentional. Two were clearly blatant Head Butts set up with a body lock, heads lined up and the opponent lifted and slammed with the attacking opponent's head lined up to collide between the mat and their own head. Tito and Burkman are the only ones that are intentional IMO. Most of the others don't have a head butt at all so slams are not eliminated. Just like head kicks are not eliminated by not kicking the head of a downed opponent.

Jones eye pokes is exactly the example. He is the reason they had to specifically state not to put your fingers in the face of an opponent which causes so many eye pokes. I think specifying lining up the heads intentionally should be a DQ IMO as it is an intentional head butt.

I think its an unenforceable rule when pertaining to headbutts..

The rules state a head butt is striking with a back and forward motion of the head impacting the opponent...tito nor burkman made such movements...it was a by product of the slam itself..and a rare one at that as u said only 4 had it happen...far to irregular for a rule change or even to start enforcing it as a rule...u gotta think about a fight as more then just black and white...its an organic thing that is constantly flowing ur asking too much of fighters and ref to make them have to watch there head placement during a clinch throw...especially when your taught to be tight and close to your opponent when grappling...its too much of a hinderance to the overall fight to enforce that as a headbutt...


If anything the guy getting tossed is doing the headbutting as he head is the one bouncing back and forth striking the floor and throwers head...so either way the same guy is the loser...i think K.O is the right call over a .D.Q

 

[dipstickjimmy]

I think its an unenforceable rule when pertaining to headbutts..

The rules state a head butt is striking with a back and forward motion of the head impacting the opponent...tito nor burkman made such movements...it was a by product of the slam itself..and a rare one at that as u said only 4 had it happen...far to irregular for a rule change or even to start enforcing it as a rule...u gotta think about a fight as more then just black and white...its an organic thing that is constantly flowing ur asking too much of fighters and ref to make them have to watch there head placement during a clinch throw...especially when your taught to be tight and close to your opponent when grappling...its too much of a hinderance to the overall fight to enforce that as a headbutt...


If anything the guy getting tossed is doing the headbutting as he head is the one bouncing back and forth striking the floor and throwers head...so either way the same guy is the loser...i think K.O is the right call over a .D.Q

Fair enough. I have never seen the rule as written regarding what is a head butt.

I wonder if I were to be able to lift a guy and slam him while my knee is on his head and smashes it to the mat would that be an illegal knee to a downed fighter?

I think you give fighters too little credit for knowing what they are doing. As you said they train for what to do and what not to do, especially in grappling.

We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[mraa1]

fuck no