Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by gabe_rath, Oct 28, 2005.
I would just say sorry and if he got all pissed off then next time i get him in a submission i wouldnt let go
i had a guy in a gullitine very tight, was absolutley amazed he wasnt tapping.. He was gurgling and everything, but he never tapped. then he yelled at me for holding it that tight, not letting go blah blah blah. And then told me that my guillitine wasn't jiu-jitsu.. anyway... thats as close as i came to what you said.
Heel hook is VERY dangerous.
you shouldn' be slapping heel hooks at your first bjj class, i been trainging for 2
Yes. I hate it when people tap the mat instead of me, or if they tap really light. If I can't feel or hear their tap, then any pain is their responsibility as far as I'm concerned; however, I still feel terrible about hurting them. If I tap too light or late, then it is my own fault for both getting into the situation and tapping in the wrong way. So I hardly ever blame my mate. In fact, the only time I get angry at my partners is if they do something illegal like insanely hard punching/elbowing (weighted whether we are doing regular or "light punching" grappling), eye/orffice gourging, putting your fingers where they don't belong, or doing a submission with the intent to break bones/joints (like really really fast and hard kneebars, armbars, or heel hooks).
new guys are known for light tapping. they probably dont want to announce their defeat or something along those lines. if he's new, this is stuff he should be learning the first day. not how to armbar, how to tap.. and most get a good dose of learning how to tap for their first classes.
my friend still does this stuff. he screams and gurgles and grunts so much. sometimes he means to stop, sometimes he's just being a woman, and everyone who rolls with him ends up stopping in the middle of a hold and clarifying to him, that only saying "tap" means you tap or tapping the person or the mat loudly. this is the most important thing for a new guy, imo. if you're screaming and shit, i'm just taking the que that whatever technique i'm using is going well.
also, make sure they let you know when they're tapping. every time i did the anaconda/gator roll choke he'd tap my legs but it just feels like pushing/battling kinda shit. some of you know what i'm talking about. when you tap, you need to be released now, not later so make it clear.
WTF? First day and you are doing heel hooks? What the hell kind of school do you train at? Bubba's Backyard Raslin' School?
It boggles my mind that you are cranking heelhooks on your first day, and worse, apparently paying so little attention to what your partner is doing that you can't tell he is tapping the mat. Even if your instructor lets you go for heel hooks -- which I think is kind of crazy -- I think it's incumbent on you to be VERY aware of how the other guy is reacting, whether he's tapping or not. I'd be pretty pissed if this happened to me.
Absolutely right. I hope the original poster was just trolling. If not, he's in the worst supervised school of all time.
Zankou - where do you train in LA?
i feel the same, heel hooks on the first day is asking for trouble, i dont do them at all.
newbs should never do them
yes, you were in the wrong.
One, you shouldn't be doing tight heel hooks in practice as a white belt. Most schools don't allow it. Two, you should do it slowly and listen carefully for the tap. Three, if he was a higher belt, they don't like to be tapped, especially by newbies doing tight, sloppy, dangerous heel hooks.
They are just too dangerous to do on a regular basis in practice.
wow, learining heel hooks already huh? are you sure it wasnt a different leglock?
you shouldn't be doing any leg locks (maybe except achiles or something) for the first couple months
I'm at John Machado's place in the Farmer's Market. Where are you at?
Zankou -- I train at Rickson's school on Wilshire near Barrington in west LA.
Whenever you have a submission or near submission you have to pay attention to your partner and make sure not to injure them. He is your teammate after all. Lock the submission out in a controlled manner. This post is yet another example of why newbies shouldn't be doing leg submissions AT ALL.
"if you're screaming and shit, i'm just taking the que that whatever technique i'm using is going well."
I'm glad you don't train where I train. Whenever a guy yells you let go of the fuckin hold. What the fucks the matter with you. I consider someone saying tap, tapping on the mat, tapping on me, or tapping with their feet I let go.
Hmm.. New guys love leg locks, the guy (if more experienced than you) was probably annoyed for getting subbed by a new guy.
You don't need much pressure to hurt someone with a heel hook so be careful.
to be fair, heel hooks can be very dangerous.
but i think bjj elitists get pissed because in bjj/no gi grappling, leglocks are very effective and can be used to cause submissions very quickly. they can come out of nowhere and a lot of people dont train them. having said that, he was probably upset because you tapped him out.
i used to get heat for using leglocks too, but it's not really an issue anymore since i don't want to get punched in the face if i botch a leglock attempt.
Don't use heel hooks in sparring. If you have to, put the heel hook on, but don't twist the foot. Just show him and yourself that you can do the heel hook. Let go, go for an achilles hold instead. When having someone in a submission, it's better to let go and be sure he doesn't get injured, than to hold on twisting/arching fast, because he might not be able to tap or have time to react to the sub and he'll get injured. Better be safe than sorry.
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