Kneebars for blue belts

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Fondler, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. Fondler

    Fondler Banned Banned

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    Some tournaments say yes to kneebars in blue belt divisions (both gi and no gi) some say no. Thoughts?
     
  2. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    The ones that do let blue belts do kneebars seem to be going the way of the dodo, since they made them illegal in the IBJJF rules.

    Personally I wish they were legal at blue belt level, I don't think straight kneebars are particularly dangerous. But some people obviously disagree.
     
  3. IxiaN

    IxiaN Black Belt

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    yeah it's the heel hooks that you have to watch out for
     
  4. silvasurfer5253

    silvasurfer5253 Purple Belt

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    I think it's a bad idea. I'd personally say brown belts or higher. Blue belts, depending what region or country, can be a very wide spanning levels of experience.
     
  5. TheIronGiraffe

    TheIronGiraffe Orange Belt

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    Kneebars at brown seems crazy to me. I think blue is fine personally and maybe heel hooks at purple.
     
  6. Ergo

    Ergo Orange Belt

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    Kneebars aren't much more dangerous than straight Achilles locks. Its a ridiculously dumb rule change to disallow them all the way up to brown(!) belts.

    Blue belts should know when to tap, and should know how to defend a kneebar. Its just that simple.
     
  7. keynote

    keynote Purple Belt

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    I think they should be legal at blue belt and definitely at purple, seems silly to me!
     
  8. Da Speeit

    Da Speeit CANCEROUS POSTER Platinum Member

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    They arent really as dangerous as heel hooks are they?
     
  9. Fondler

    Fondler Banned Banned

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    I don't see the problem with straight kneebars, same thing as a straight armbar in my mind. By the time your a blue belt, you should know all of the basic submissions for every limb.

    Heel hooks should only be allowed in black belt, in fact all submissions should be allowed in black belt divisions.
     
  10. SmokWhed

    SmokWhed Green Belt

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    is a straight kneebar that much more dangerous than a flying armbar or something? I've been kneebarred a few times and i've honestly felt in more danger with guys tweaking armbars harder. But i guess knee injuries are tougher to get over than arm injuries
     
  11. crackbaby420**

    crackbaby420** Yellow Belt

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    they should be allowed, refs just need to be aware and no when to stop things if people dont tap
     
  12. Peteyandjia

    Peteyandjia Autumn Rose Staff Member Forum Administrator

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    Some of the tournaments are letting whitebelts do kneebars and footlocks, like the Grappler's Quests at the UFC Expos... It think that's a little crazy.
     
  13. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    I think they should mind aswell take away straight achilles for white belts

    and "only" having kneebars and not toeholds doesn't make any sense, especially since the work so well together, allow them both at blue or purple, peopel who become good at them before blue probably neglect other stuff too much

    Hellhooks there is a point, we don't need it we are for the most part amatuers and the risk is higher then the reward
     
  14. beeran1

    beeran1 Purple Belt

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    We do them at my academy in both gi and no-gi (blue belt and above). I have yet to see a tournament around here allow them in a gi division at my level, but I believe they are typically allowed at Intermediate and above in no-gi. To me, it's no different than an armbar.
     
  15. outonbail

    outonbail Living My Dreams

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    they should be allowed at purple the last imo.
     
  16. Fondler

    Fondler Banned Banned

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    [​IMG]

    That is just dangerous.
     
  17. RyanR

    RyanR Black Belt

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    Fine by me.
     
  18. akharon

    akharon Blue Belt

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    No problem here with straight kneebars and toeholds. We're pretty adamant that you have to be around blue level to start doing that stuff though.
     
  19. crossman

    crossman White Belt

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    I would love to hear from sambo guys on this in regards to safety .eg prevelence of injuries from lower extremity locks. I personally would rather be in a knee bar than most guillotine chokes. wrecked cervical vertebre are just as hard to get over as wrecked knees.
     
  20. bjjmedic

    bjjmedic Orange Belt

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    It amazes me sometimes how people are willing second guess the top people in the BJJ world. These rules are put in for a reason; to protect people from themselves, to protect competitors from aggressive individuals, protect the organization from lawsuits, and to protect the reputation of BJJ as martial art/sport that most people can learn and expect to suffer from a debilitating injury.

    People get hurt by thinking they can hold out a little longer on this submission, or that only a wussy would tap out in competition. Knee injuries can take a long time to heal, I had a knee injury that bothered me for more than 10 years.

    I've seen some very aggressive people in competitions who would not worry about seriously injuring somebody if it meant that they would win. Now at a black belt level I can see that if you don't tap out to lock then that is your problem but if you get hurt at a lower level you might never get to be a black belt.

    Organizations have to very careful about what is acceptable and isn't. If someone was to be permanently disabled because the referee wasn't able to stop the fight in time for a number or reasons the referee, the opponent, the organization and the venue could all be sued. The lawsuit may or may not be successful but the threat of a lawsuit is enough for an organization to err on the side of caution.

    If people get debilitating injuries from competing in BJJ or from training for those competitions BJJ will be seen by the public as being too dangerous for the average person to try.

    BJJ for life, not just for a short time in your 20's.
     

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