Knee-Reaping & Footlock myths in BJJ

[Calibur]

I've only reaped the leg once in competition and the dude ended up in a wheelchair.

How exactly did that happen? Genuinely curious

 

[dan halen]

I like leg locks a lot, but the biggest complaint I hear from BJJ guys is that learning them too early or beginners who focus greatly on them end up relying on them, rather than passing the guard.

 

[Darth Shlong]

They just dont like getting caught in them, I love footlocks. Fuck the haters

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

How exactly did that happen? Genuinely curious

I had an inside leg triangle, and before I reached for the inside heel hook he went to roll out and broke his knee. I've got video give me a second

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

 

[Oleg Raktatov]

Here are a few things that are pretty much facts :


-Yes, kneereaping could be dangerous. Dont go and think it isnt.

-kneereaping dont happen (against good grapplers) from inside an open guard. It happens from a transition from inferior position. I know some people are teachnig otherwise on dvds, but dont believe the hype, look at the hundreds of comp vids online. You will see it, but really, its rare.

-toe holds, kneebars, and straight ankle locks(without reaping) are far enough to have a leglock game, even a crazy good one.

-hence, ibjjf should permit all the leglocks at blue belt level, not brown.

-guard passers should be the best leglockers since its complementary.


-the average bjj black belt's knowledge of leglocks, setups and escapes is white belt level. Of course, there are many exceptions.(still exceptions though)

Now, go on, flame me.

 

[The Archer360]

Cool video dude, but I'd like to point one thing out.

There is a physiological difference between bending the leg inwards as supposed to outwards because of how the hip joint is build and it's range of motion. That's a major difference.

Excellent point. I am glad this was brought up.

 

[TheHereticJay]

So, do you no longer reap in competition because of this incident or has the opportunity just not arisen again? I would have to say though, from this video, it was ignorance of the position that got him hurt and that with more knowledge we'd have less injuries of this type.

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

I've only had one match since then where heel hooks were legal, and the situation didn't arise. I agree, knowing which way to turn would stop a lot of injuries

 

[TheHereticJay]

I've only had one match since then where heel hooks were legal, and the situation didn't arise. I agree, knowing which way to turn would stop a lot of injuries

Ah ok, I was hoping that was the case. I'd hate to see something like this make someone practice inefficient technique. Reap on good sir.

 

[selfcritical]

If people don't want beginners diving for leg locks instead of passing the guard, they can just teach the beginners to use leg locks primarily from bottom position.



Yeah, I'm pro reaping, but I was gonna say this as well. The knee can usually take less inward torque ('reaping') than outward (e.g. 50/50). Still, both can be dangerous if exaggerated, but should also be relatively safe as long as both parties understand a position.

Given this, why is it that the inverted heel hook comes on faster than the standard heel hook?

 

[BJJ Coffee Drinker]

did he hurt his knee @ 1:55 when he tried to spin and fell? Or was it a bit after that when you were both down on the mat?

With the direction he was about to try and spin, isn't that the correct direction he is supposed to go? Granted you hooked his other leg to prevent spinning but if it had not been hooked, shouldn't he have gone that way anyway? Because there isn't any way for him to spin to the outside (opposite the way he went).

what would have been the correct defense for him then, when you applied the inside triangle and heel hook the way you did?

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

I've honestly never gotten out of the inside leg triangle, so I don't know how. I usually get wrist control and stall like a mother fucker.

It was on the mat when he started to yell at me, I hadn't locked up the heel hook yet. The pop from his knee was so loud he thought I had sucker punched his knee.

And the other way would've been right because that's with the pressure not against it. But he obviously couldn't because of the inside leg triangle hooking his leg

 

[TheHereticJay]

In that position you do not compress into your opponent, which he did, and your first defense is freeing your other leg, which he did not. Him compressing and trying to turn his body without having a free leg is what hurt him. Had his other leg been free, he could have turned with the heel hook(or pressure in this case since it wasn't locked up) and stepped over ice9 to land in a half guard type position. But I will say, this isn't something you just instinctively know to do, it's something ingrained in the gym, the fact that while typing this and had to think for a second how to correctly escape means I need to drill my heel hook escapes more.

 

[BJJ Coffee Drinker]

so the injury was probably from when he tried to spin then failed and fell

wait, so he did spin to the correct direction as he was going with the pressure, but just in the wrong situation as his leg was hooked by the inside triangle. am I correct here?

or are you saying he should have went and spun towards his own right side?

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

It happened when I was on my left side, if he would have tried to belly down it wouldn't have torn whatever it tore

 

[TheHereticJay]

It looked to have been hurt when he was on the ground, not from that initial jerk when standing. (Which Ice did a good job of keeping control) He spun the right direction, but under the wrong circumstances. His, left leg in this situation, needs to be free to do the proper escape and not wind up as he did.

 

[Calibur]

Damnit no one should be spinning.

If your foot is free and you get reaped you can extend your leg and be okay.

If the foot is trapped and you extend your leg while reaped it pops. That's it.

You don't spin because there's a fine line between your foot being trapped or free. You stall by controlling the opponents spine(head/collar tie, etc) failing that you control the arm/wrist/elbow. Than you use your other leg to untangle the reap while wedging your elbow between the reaping elbow and your own hip.

Spinning is the hitchhiker escape of the footlock. If you're doing it you've made a dozen tactical errors already.

Don't spin. Control the opponents limbs, posture, stack, pull your leg out.

 

[Calibur]

Sucks for that dude though.

He's one of the most explosive scramblers I've seen at the lower level. Angry grappling.

If he exploded out of the reap with the same force he disengaged with in the beginning it's no surprise he got hurt. That's a lot of energy going the wrong direction on a knee that clearly had previous issues.

 

[TheHereticJay]

Damnit no one should be spinning.

If your foot is free and you get reaped you can extend your leg and be okay.

If the foot is trapped and you extend your leg while reaped it pops. That's it.

You don't spin because there's a fine line between your foot being trapped or free. You stall by controlling the opponents spine(head/collar tie, etc) failing that you control the arm/wrist/elbow. Than you use your other leg to untangle the reap while wedging your elbow between the reaping elbow and your own hip.

Spinning is the hitchhiker escape of the footlock. If you're doing it you've made a dozen tactical errors already.

Don't spin. Control the opponents limbs, posture, stack, pull your leg out.

You obviously haven't been put in leg control by someone with GOOD leg locks. You spin out of heel hooks. You stand and smash out of ankle locks. I won't comment on toe holds and kneebars because I suck offensively and defensively at them and they're not the topic at hand here.

When I say you spin out of heel hooks I don't mean just go "Weeeee!" and expect to escape... you're gonna hurt yourself. You NEED to clear your free leg first. Then if it's a normal heel hook, you spin all the way around going with the pressure. If it's an inverted heel hook you do a half spin and walk out of it like "nope, dont wanna play anymore"