Kit Dale Interview: "Winning Isn't Everything"

[SisyphusMyth]

Just did an interview with Kit Dale on the Take It Uneasy podcast:

"I would much rather lose to somebody in a really good fight than win in a really shit boring manner." - Kit Dale

Do you agree?

Kit is an amazing competitor that just got his black belt this summer. Here are some recent matches we talked about:



Here's the podcast audio:

 

[BJJ Beginner]

Just did an interview with Kit Dale on the Take It Uneasy podcast:

"I would much rather lose to somebody in a really good fight than win in a really shit boring manner." - Kit Dale

Do you agree?

Kit is an amazing competitor that just got his black belt this summer. Here are some recent matches we talked about:



Here's the podcast audio:

Rephrase it to "I'd rather lose going for the finish than win via stalling" and I agree. An exciting fight is the likely byproduct of such an approach, but I don't care how exciting it is as long as I get the finish.

 

[Rod1]

Depends, if you are well off and do it as a hobby, not a problem.

When your livehood depends on winning, yes it is.

 

[Tesseract]

Thanks for the interview. Kit's a gifted athlete!

 

[SisyphusMyth]

When your livehood depends on winning, yes it is.

I'm not sure your livelihood ever depends on you winning. Especially in jiu jitsu, or other sports like Olympic wrestling, the money that comes from winning is very small compared to the investment in time and money that the competitors make. So if "livelihood" was your primary concern, you probably wouldn't compete at all.

I think most high level competitors compete for the love of the sport and the dream of standing on top of the podium at the highest level of competition. Money is a convenient thing to talk about, but at the end of the day, jiu jitsu competition is not about money.

Of course, everyone is different, but that's the sense I got from talking with Kit.

 

[redaxe]

Depends, if you are well off and do it as a hobby, not a problem.

When your livehood depends on winning, yes it is.

If your livelihood is riding on your chance of winning a single match you are doing it wrong. It's not the Olympics, there are always lots more chances to compete, and plenty of other ways to make a living off the sport.

 

[Kenny from MD]

How could you disagree with that? Who doesn't want the fight? I've always been disgusted seeing guys win by DQ and celebrate or celebrate a bye-round. Why do you compete if you don't want the tough guys? I would rather drop a match to a guy like Marcio Andre or Michael Liera and have scrapped it out, then smoke some guy that I already know I can beat for sure.

 

[Kenny from MD]

If your livelihood is riding on your chance of winning a single match you are doing it wrong. It's not the Olympics, there are always lots more chances to compete, and plenty of other ways to make a living off the sport.

Exactly. This isn't MMA. Who is on the street starving because they lost a good fight?

 

[lechien]

Depends, if you are well off and do it as a hobby, not a problem.

When your livehood depends on winning, yes it is.

I agree that he might not come from a bettter social class of a developed country.

I am not even sure if he was teaching full time when he was a brown belt.

I heard he was just doing some privates classes.

Not sure where he got the rest of his income from.

But he trains full time and competes a lot.

 

[Rod1]

I'm not sure your livelihood ever depends on you winning. Especially in jiu jitsu, or other sports like Olympic wrestling, the money that comes from winning is very small compared to the investment in time and money that the competitors make. So if "livelihood" was your primary concern, you probably wouldn't compete at all.

I think most high level competitors compete for the love of the sport and the dream of standing on top of the podium at the highest level of competition. Money is a convenient thing to talk about, but at the end of the day, jiu jitsu competition is not about money.

Of course, everyone is different, but that's the sense I got from talking with Kit.

When i mean losing your livehood, is losing your ability to compete because your spot gets taken. Not going into the streets certainly, but maybe having to take a regular job.

Because money is the only compensation that exists in this world? Also many athletes are sponsored and their sponsorship depends on performance.

This without even taking into account qualifying matches.

If your livelihood is riding on your chance of winning a single match you are doing it wrong. It's not the Olympics, there are always lots more chances to compete, and plenty of other ways to make a living off the sport.

Yes, but its getting more crowded everyday, less oportunities and more competition.

 

[Ishaq]

Brendan Schwab would rather lose by running away...

 

[SisyphusMyth]

When i mean losing your livehood, is losing your ability to compete because your spot gets taken. Not going into the streets certainly, but maybe having to take a regular job.

I know exactly what you're saying, but competition mindset is different than a rational analysis of the situation. If you actually think about the practical implications of you losing, the pressure will negatively affect your performance. I think you have to go in believing you're the best, and try to be driven solely by the love of the sport: you know the things that made you want to do it when you first started.

 

[BJJArsenal]

In all honesty, I'm going to admit, I would most rather win. I do attack the sub, but only once I feel like I've settled. If I know attacking the pass from a not fully developed position can cost me the win by points or submission then I won't attack until I've advanced my position until I can. I think I must own the most boring 2-0 win of my life purely because I wasn't comfortable attacking the pass. In retrospect I should have done because I know I would have passed, but in competition slow and steady often wins the race.

 

[SisyphusMyth]

In all honesty, I'm going to admit, I would most rather win. I do attack the sub, but only once I feel like I've settled. If I know attacking the pass from a not fully developed position can cost me the win by points or submission then I won't attack until I've advanced my position until I can. I think I must own the most boring 2-0 win of my life purely because I wasn't comfortable attacking the pass. In retrospect I should have done because I know I would have passed, but in competition slow and steady often wins the race.

In any given match, your approach makes perfect sense, and I've done the same thing very often. But if you think long term, the attempt to pass would've made you a better grappler and help make sure that you learn more from the experience. It all depends what you are competing for. The more medals I win, the more meaningless I realize there are in themselves. It's the battles you have to earn them that matter, and really they matter only to me. Everyone else forgets about it.

 

[BJJArsenal]

In any given match, your approach makes perfect sense, and I've done the same thing very often. But if you think long term, the attempt to pass would've made you a better grappler and help make sure that you learn more from the experience. It all depends what you are competing for. The more medals I win, the more meaningless I realize there are in themselves. It's the battles you have to earn them that matter, and really they matter only to me. Everyone else forgets about it.

In some ways you are correct, but in that case I could argue I should never aim to win because I'll learn more having to defend in bad positions etc. That's what the gym is for.

 

[Kenny from MD]

When i mean losing your livehood, is losing your ability to compete because your spot gets taken. Not going into the streets certainly, but maybe having to take a regular job.

Because money is the only compensation that exists in this world? Also many athletes are sponsored and their sponsorship depends on performance.

This without even taking into account qualifying matches.

Your spot gets taken in what? There is are like two major qualifying tournament and 0% of human beings world wide depend on those tournaments to support themselves. What competitors live off their sponsorship money and will lose it if they lose a match, or even multiple matches? What competitors DON'T drop matches? What are you even talking about?

 

[Rod1]

Your spot gets taken in what? There is are like two major qualifying tournament and 0% of human beings world wide depend on those tournaments to support themselves. What competitors live off their sponsorship money and will lose it if they lose a match, or even multiple matches? What competitors DON'T drop matches? What are you even talking about?

ADCC for once gives 1 spot with paid expenses, there may be also kids and athletes coming from abroad who are not paying his travel and expenses out of their pockets.

But as the sport grows and so the competition, eventually there is not enough room for everyone to make it to a tournament.

Im just telling, medals are easier to remember than if you played to win or not.

 

[SisyphusMyth]

Im just telling, medals are easier to remember than if you played to win or not.

I think that's a very practical look at it and unfortunately is very true, but at the end of the day, noone cares about the medals either. If you want to run a BJJ school, and want to make medals you won as part of the pitch, you can make a gold medal at NAGA seem like the greatest thing ever.

For me, competition is about personal glory, the ability to live life knowing I put myself out there to the best of my ability and I didn't hold back.

 

[Kenny from MD]

ADCC for once gives 1 spot with paid expenses, there may be also kids and athletes coming from abroad who are not paying his travel and expenses out of their pockets.

But as the sport grows and so the competition, eventually there is not enough room for everyone to make it to a tournament.

Im just telling, medals are easier to remember than if you played to win or not.

I don't disagree that a strong resume is more convincing for sponsorship than a reputation for being a tough draw, but that's not what I am getting at here, I am saying who in the real world, does this actually apply to? At what point has someone lost their means to provide for themselves by losing a jiu jitsu fight?

We can talk about things in a vague, theoretical sense, but that doesn't mean it has a bearing on reality.

 

[Rod1]

I don't disagree that a strong resume is more convincing for sponsorship than a reputation for being a tough draw, but that's not what I am getting at here, I am saying who in the real world, does this actually apply to? At what point has someone lost their means to provide for themselves by losing a jiu jitsu fight?

We can talk about things in a vague, theoretical sense, but that doesn't mean it has a bearing on reality.

How are we supposed to tell about people who stopped training because they lost? kind of difficult answer you are looking because if we know about them, is because they are already winners.