Kimura/reverse Kimura

[WAR MMA]

So tonight in class we learned the Kimura and reverse Kimura submissions. I'm a bit confused as to the naming conventions though, as I always through a Kimura had the opponents arm at their side, and the reverse Kimura (which I always knew as an Americana) had the opponents arm towards their head.

Kimura:

Americana (Reverse Kimura):

but our instructor was calling the americana a kimura, and what I call the kimura was called a reverse kimura.

I'm quite confused. traditionally, which of the above is a kimura and which is a reverse kimura/americana?

 

[hughes fan]

I think you're right. The first picture seems to be a kimura and the bottom appears to be an americana.

 

[Belatucadros]

Is your instructor originally a judo guy?

ude-garami is the americana, and reverse ude-garami is the kimura.

I've seen plenty of judo guys call them both the kimura - because in judo they're both ude-garami

 

[SteelHammer]

the top one is the one called the kimura. the bottom is the americana.

This is the lock masahiko kimura used against helio, which started the whole "kimura" being named after him thing:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/Masahiko_Kimura_vs_Helio_Gracie_ude-garami.jpg
It almost looks to me like he's doing an americana :-/

But regardless, in mma and bjj the top one (the one you called the kimura) is the one called the kimura. so your photos are correct by today's terminology regardless of what masahiko kimura actually used on gracie.

 

[WAR MMA]

the top one is the one called the kimura. the bottom is the americana.

But regardless, in mma and bjj the top one (the one you called the kimura) is the one called the kimura. so your photos are correct by today's terminology regardless of what masahiko kimura actually used on gracie.

ok, that was my thinking, but I'm not about to call out a brown belt instructor. maybe our head instructor (Marcello Monteiro) calls them differently. I was just very confused when we learned a Kimura and he started doing an Americana, and then the reverse Kimura was what I always knew as a regular kimura.

Either way, i nailed two americanas during rolling. felt good, until my partner landed two armbars :icon_chee

 

[KJGould]

This is the lock masahiko kimura used against helio, which started the whole "kimura" being named after him thing:

It almost looks to me like he's doing an americana :-/

I think it's just been turned that far back. No wonder his arm broke.

Anyway ... Double Wrist Lock and Top Wrist Lock :icon_chee

 

[El Beebo]

I had always been taught that for a reverse kimura, you switch your grip. So if you have a reverse kimura from guard on your opponent's left arm, instead of gripping his/her wrist with your right hand, you grip it with your left hand and then your right hand grips your own left wrist.

I usually hit reverse kimuras when my opponent bends their arm back after I attempt an overhook armbar from guard. There's a chain of submissions that goes keylock from guard -> overhook armbar -> reverse kimura.

 

[xMikeyX]

This is not the Reverse Kimura Joe Moreiera teaches in The Guard and the Strategic Guard...

 

[lightw8]

This is not the Reverse Kimura Joe Moreiera teaches in The Guard and the Strategic Guard...

yo, I LOVE those books. I dont hear too many people talk about them, but I find them to be maybe the most informative on bjj. Just the Passing The Guard book alone is phenomenal in my opinion.

 

[SteelHammer]

I had always been taught that for a reverse kimura, you switch your grip. So if you have a reverse kimura from guard on your opponent's left arm, instead of gripping his/her wrist with your right hand, you grip it with your left hand and then your right hand grips your own left wrist.

I've never heard of that. Are you sure it's as effective as a regular one?