Kimura is a Strong Man's submission

[Frank Edgar]

It depends on the position you are in

If you are just lying squarely in full guard, then yes, you need to be very strong to pull one off.

Most kimuras in MMA are done improperly though as desperation moves or to set up a sweep

If you are in guard going for a kimura, then ideally you want to kick on of your legs up toward the sky as if you're bringing it up toward your nose. At the same time, with your arms in kimura position, you want to pull on your opponent's upper body

This should basically sweep him, and bring him to a faceplant position almost as if he were in an omoplata. From this position, completing the kimura requires little strength and anyone should be able to finish it

If you are going for a kimura in mount, then you should step over your opponent and place yourself so that his head is tucked in the inside of your knee and raised so that he's not flat on his back, but on his side

So ideally, the kimura should be no more of a "strength sub" than any other joint lock.

Yall can look up BJJ how to videos if you don't believe me

 

[BJJ_Rage]

It depends on the position you are in

If you are just lying squarely in full guard, then yes, you need to be very strong to pull one off.

Most kimuras in MMA are done improperly though as desperation moves or to set up a sweep

If you are in guard going for a kimura, then ideally you want to kick on of your legs up toward the sky as if you're bringing it up toward your nose. At the same time, with your arms in kimura position, you want to pull on your opponent's upper body

This should basically sweep him, and bring him to a faceplant position almost as if he were in an omoplata. From this position, completing the kimura requires little strength and anyone should be able to finish it

If you are going for a kimura in mount, then you should step over your opponent and place yourself so that his head is tucked in the inside of your knee and raised so that he's not flat on his back, but on his side

So ideally, the kimura should be no more of a "strength sub" than any other joint lock.

Yall can look up BJJ how to videos if you don't believe me

you dont need too much stringht to finish the kimura once the arm is completely bent, you need it to get to that position.

kimuras from mount, I dont know how you would do that, from side mount, yes.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Haha why are you so angry?

GSP, who was always my favorite fighter, messed up on the kimura attempt from catchers both times and even admitted to doing so. GSP is elite and trains with elite level BJJ players. Even the best in the game don't know everything from every position.

And I hardly ever go for the kimura on bottom but I've finished it from top against much larger and stronger opponents many times, all because of the finer details in th technique. I'm not very big or strong at all either. Strength certainly helps but it can hinder too if someone just relies on their power to get them through.

GSP didnt mess anything up, he was doing it qute right, may be he shoudlve adjusted a little because of hardy stubbenes not to tap and incredible flexible shoulders. He was caught on tape after the fight in the locker room asking for adviace on what he did wrong, his coach told him nothing, hardy is just one tough SOB. I remember vaguely the move, but im quite sure didnt see anything wrong with that at the time.

Sorry If I sound agry, I wasnt, is just that english inst my first lenguage and sometimes I might sound rude because of my lack of extensive vocabulary.

 

[Dayman1984]

Didn't Marcelo garcia say similar something similar? A kimura from bottom definitely takes a lot of strength to go along with technique. Prying the wrist for leverage will help alot with that though.

He did. Marcelo loves his guillotine, NS choke, and rear naked choke. His rear naked/crucifix combo is crazy.

 

[Bacco]

From bottom yeah, it require good strenght too

From top it's more about angle/positioning, build the opportunity and do it at the right moment.
I don't believe from top it require that much strenght compared to some other subs, i believe many times it's applied on not-perfect situations and helped with strenght to get the job done

 

[branvan16]

Guys definitely power out of armbars all the time, picking guys up and shucking them off.

I would say that we probably don't see Kimuras from the guard because the set up is more obvious, slower and it's just more difficult to control the guy on tops posture the way you need to execute it. Any submission can require you to use a lot of energy cranking on it, but yeah I did find myself muscling out Kimura's more than any others

I guess I will explain the difference about powering out of a kimura on the ground and a standing arm bar. It's very simple. Usually the arm in a kimura is being defended with out the help of the rest of your body (except for using it to cross your arm over the waist). Your arm is isolated from using your body to power out of it.

Lifting a guy off the ground in a standing armbar isn't really powering out of it in the same sense as with most kimuras. You are using your entire body to lift the applier while your arm is still isolated. Your legs and torso work to lift the guy up, while your arm is fairly straight in front of you, which helps you use your upper torso to lessen the appliers extension power.

There's no way around it. Kimuras require a lot more physical strength than most other subs. You can even just look at arm position and watch how leverage works between an arm bar and a kimura. Arm bar requires very little effort from your arms to finish it and you aren't really in danger of over exerting yourself if it fails. Kimuras typically burn a lot of unecessary energy and you are at risk of sapping your energy if you try for to long.

 

[Air Lats]

Although he initially gets the position from the top, technically Lazuon finishes Warburton with the Kimura from the bottom. Strength definitely plays a part to a degree but it certainly isn't the dominant factor in getting the Kimura.

Lol - that literally made me tap out on my phone. Ended up clicking one of you d-bag's profiles.

 

[Serana]

Strength helps with the Kimura, but having the technique to set it up and finish it is more important, otherwise, you can waste a lot of energy.

 

[BJJkid94]

GSP didnt mess anything up, he was doing it qute right, may be he shoudlve adjusted a little because of hardy stubbenes not to tap and incredible flexible shoulders. He was caught on tape after the fight in the locker room asking for adviace on what he did wrong, his coach told him nothing, hardy is just one tough SOB. I remember vaguely the move, but im quite sure didnt see anything wrong with that at the time.

Sorry If I sound agry, I wasnt, is just that english inst my first lenguage and sometimes I might sound rude because of my lack of extensive vocabulary.

Your English seems very good and I wouldn't have known it was your second language. Props to you; I always really respect when someone can speak more than one language.

Here's the kimura attempt in the Hardy fight. There are many things wrong with submission attemp. GSP is using a modified catchers position that somewhat adapts the old school kimura, switched hips with top leg over the head from side control. He would likely have been able to finish if he either pinched both his knees together to commit to the catchers position, or he should have sprawled his hips out and back, keeping the top leg over the head and getting super heavy with his upper body like George Sotiropolous, which would have also isolated Hardy's body. Once Hardy's body is stuck, GSP can better attack the arm cause hardy has no where to wiggle to fight it. Also, GSP doesn't have the strongest figure four here and it looks like he's about to lose the wrist control almost, cause he was gripping the palm of the hand which is too low for the ideal control, and he's lacking the proper 90 degree bend in the arm too. He could have benefited further by having Hardy's elbow glued to his chest so when he turns his upper body it torques the arm with more power.

 

[CroCopsLHK]

1. Listen to JRE
2. Copy quote from Marcelo Garcia
3. Post it on a forum as if it's your own thought
4. ?????
5. Profit

It is my own thoughts, as previously stated. I just need to enlighten everybody with my priceless wisdom. I should be a trainer at Greg Jackson's or some shit

 

[Osculater]

Mang, I thought all ya s train and all dat jazz but ya are whack and don't train

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Your English seems very good and I wouldn't have known it was your second language. Props to you; I always really respect when someone can speak more than one language.

Here's the kimura attempt in the Hardy fight. There are many things wrong with submission attemp. GSP is using a modified catchers position that somewhat adapts the old school kimura, switched hips with top leg over the head from side control. He would likely have been able to finish if he either pinched both his knees together to commit to the catchers position, or he should have sprawled his hips out and back, keeping the top leg over the head and getting super heavy with his upper body like George Sotiropolous, which would have also isolated Hardy's body. Once Hardy's body is stuck, GSP can better attack the arm cause hardy has no where to wiggle to fight it. Also, GSP doesn't have the strongest figure four here and it looks like he's about to lose the wrist control almost, cause he was gripping the palm of the hand which is too low for the ideal control, and he's lacking the proper 90 degree bend in the arm too. He could have benefited further by having Hardy's elbow glued to his chest so when he turns his upper body it torques the arm with more power.

thanks for the vid, I dont know what the catchers position is, would you mind posting a vid of it? I think he was a little too low, but tht gives you more leverage, less control, but more leverage, it was insane that hardy didnt tap, GSp shouldve bent the arm a little more, I dont know if he couldnt because hardy was trying to straight it up....

tx for the compliment on my English by the way.

 

[Hellboy31]

That's noncense. Marcello says it so everyone believes it but it's not true. The Kimura is much more than just a position and it has nothing to do with strength. I'm weak as shit and it's a huge part of game.

 

[Frenchfighter02]

in

Somewhere Saku is laughing at you.

Yeah...
Except Saku never gets the kimura from bottom closed guard...What made him so dangerous was his standing kumura when opponents had his back...He uses the momentum to get the kimura...
nice try tho...

 

[wufabufa]

Ronaldo Souza submited Marcelo Garcia with a kimura in ADCC...Only reason he could beat the technically superior Garcia was thru brute force from the closed guard...

You're talking about guys that are equally skilled in BJJ. With all things being near equal, the competitor with superior athleticism is going to win. Jacare was better that day at implemented his game.

 

[BJJkid94]

thanks for the vid, I dont know what the catchers position is, would you mind posting a vid of it? I think he was a little too low, but tht gives you more leverage, less control, but more leverage, it was insane that hardy didnt tap, GSp shouldve bent the arm a little more, I dont know if he couldnt because hardy was trying to straight it up....

tx for the compliment on my English by the way.

It took me forever to find a video showing the catchers position, it's basically what Barnett is doing here in the first part of the video. Ideally one would have their opponent on their bottom should so the back is exposed, and use the legs and knees to pitch the opponents body so they can't get out.

The second technique shown demonstrates some of the points I was talking about earlier, like bringing the elbow all the way to the chest.

 

[Hallelujah]

in

Yeah...
Except Saku never gets the kimura from bottom closed guard...What made him so dangerous was his standing kumura when opponents had his back...He uses the momentum to get the kimura...
nice try tho...

Saku never worked from closed guard. He'd give up his back and go for double wrist lock. derp

 

[Combat Wombatt]

Typically. Almost always.

Werdum's kimura on Overeem still amazes me. He wasn't Ubereem yet, but he was a HW. Werdum's technique won him that fight, though.

I thought Overeem beat Werdum?

 

[Sgt Smith]

The rotational muscles of the shoulder are also not nearly as strong as most of the major muscle groups that act on the shoulder joint. As well as being at a disadvantage from the point of leverage. Physics and anatomy also play a major component in the submission.

 

[INTERL0PER]

People always talk about the kimura as a strength sub, but I've never found it really takes all that much strength. But then, I don't ever go for the sub unless I have the right positioning and angle. I use the kimura grip all the time, but more to sweep or control posture. That said, I do finish it from guard quite often, and if shift my hips to the side, leg over the back, tight, correct grip etc, then I don't feel like I use that much strength.

But I am 6'3" and long and lanky, so maybe I have the leverage and size to use comparatively less strength.