Kimura is a Strong Man's submission

[loyalyolayal]

If grappling is a fighter plane, the kimura is my eject/kamikaze move. Does strength play an integral part, sure. But as a lanky light feather, I catch people heavier & younger than me. Probably old man strength.

 

[Lucifer Alpha]

Underrated fighter..

 

[Vegesus44]

Although he initially gets the position from the top, technically Lazuon finishes Warburton with the Kimura from the bottom. Strength definitely plays a part to a degree but it certainly isn't the dominant factor in getting the Kimura.

 

[Kelman]

You gotta be a Strong Man to finish the kimura from the bottom

Great thread. Kind of covers the same point as one I made a while ago about how you have to punch someone's face really quite hard for it to hurt.

 

[Will Samuelson]

I believe from experience that I have limb length leverage first aswell as strength. Guillotine also.

However, it SHOULDN'T be a strength submission - though rarer because it needs ideal position.
My light and small wife can't kimura me relaxed but can arm bar me.

 

[Frenchfighter02]

Ronaldo Souza submited Marcelo Garcia with a kimura in ADCC...Only reason he could beat the technically superior Garcia was thru brute force from the closed guard...

 

[Gavster]

Its definately much easier to use it to roll someone then finish them.

 

[HaulParris]

Although he initially gets the position from the top, technically Lazuon finishes Warburton with the Kimura from the bottom. Strength definitely plays a part to a degree but it certainly isn't the dominant factor in getting the Kimura.

Thanks for bringing back the memories. That was back when 1st Round Lauzon was being talked about as a contender. This sub reminded me of Hazelett-McRory.

 

[BJJkid94]

I get the perception of the kimura being a strong mans move, but I would have to say in its pure form it really isn't at all. The reason it's thought of this way is because a lot of grapplers miss the finer points/details of the submission,from top or bottom, and then compensate for their lack of technique but using all their arm strength. The figure four grip itself is one of the strongest out there and provides an immense amount of control; on top, the one applying focus on keeping a 90 degree bend in their opponents arm, and also keeping the wrist of the captured arm glued to the mat at all times. Then, after stepping over the opponents head and switching the hips, this exposes space between the mat and their opponents back, allowing for the captured arm to be behind the defenders back for the finish. I would say the best example I've seen of this is George Sotiropolous finishing Joe Lauzon; G-Sot trained with my academy during this time period and his kimuras were different and more deadly than I've ever seen.

If done properly, the attacker uses their entire body to finish the kimura, and the entire body will always be stronger than an isolated arm.

There are other grip details too from other positions that make a world of difference. Like when being applied from bottom, it's important to do a motorcycle rev (curl) with the wrists and keep the tricep of the captured arm glued to your chest, and then turning your hips and whole body, not just using the arms to rip the isolated arm free. Also, the catchers position, which GSP used against Hughes (third fight) and Hardy requires similar grip details for greater efficiency; it's important to keep the elbow to the chest, motorcycle curl the wrists, pull the wrist of the captured arm as close to the attackers own hips as possible, and then ripping the arm free with the body but also by pulling the arm away from the defenders grip first and then behind the back. If the opponents body is a vertical center line up and down, and the kimura needs to be applied on the left side of this line, the opponents grip should be broken by first ripping away to the right side of this line, because it's pulling away from the opponents grip, and is on their weak plane; trying to take the arm behind the back immediately plays into the direction of the defenders grip (if trying to grab their own arm or hand to defend).

 

[Johnsonville]

I hate this shit haha if you go deep enough with your arm closest to the shoulder and grab the wrist as far down as possible, even at the blade of the hand, it takes out almost all of the brute force most people use to complete it. It is a submission neglected by bjj guys and perfected by cacc guys imo.

~DaViD~

 

[Mastoness]

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I get the perception of the kimura being a strong mans move, but I would have to say in its pure form it really isn't at all. The reason it's thought of this way is because a lot of grapplers miss the finer points/details of the submission,from top or bottom, and then compensate for their lack of technique but using all their arm strength. The figure four grip itself is one of the strongest out there and provides an immense amount of control; on top, the one applying focus on keeping a 90 degree bend in their opponents arm, and also keeping the wrist of the captured arm glued to the mat at all times. Then, after stepping over the opponents head and switching the hips, this exposes space between the mat and their opponents back, allowing for the captured arm to be behind the defenders back for the finish. I would say the best example I've seen of this is George Sotiropolous finishing Joe Lauzon; G-Sot trained with my academy during this time period and his kimuras were different and more deadly than I've ever seen.

If done properly, the attacker uses their entire body to finish the kimura, and the entire body will always be stronger than an isolated arm.

There are other grip details too from other positions that make a world of difference. Like when being applied from bottom, it's important to do a motorcycle rev (curl) with the wrists and keep the tricep of the captured arm glued to your chest, and then turning your hips and whole body, not just using the arms to rip the isolated arm free. Also, the catchers position, which GSP used against Hughes (third fight) and Hardy requires similar grip details for greater efficiency; it's important to keep the elbow to the chest, motorcycle curl the wrists, pull the wrist of the captured arm as close to the attackers own hips as possible, and then ripping the arm free with the body but also by pulling the arm away from the defenders grip first and then behind the back. If the opponents body is a vertical center line up and down, and the kimura needs to be applied on the left side of this line, the opponents grip should be broken by first ripping away to the right side of this line, because it's pulling away from the opponents grip, and is on their weak plane; trying to take the arm behind the back immediately plays into the direction of the defenders grip (if trying to grab their own arm or hand to defend).

dude you could name a trillon details, you think you are the only one that knows them? flash news, you are not.

You thnk pro fighters who train with high elite instructors dont know details to finish the kimura? flash news, they do.

You think marcelo garcia doesnt know every single minor detail of the move, flash news, he does.

Thing is,the kimura does requieres strength or at least a typical body type for it to be executed. IF you are lanky and have long arms, is way easier to lock it up, thing is, you are going vs a much stronger dude, things get messy, if you have the arm fully bent, then yes of course you can finish it, problem is when you dont have it, and the guy you are facing is a bigger and stronger guy, is really really stop the guy from defending it.

The kimura grip however can be use in many different situations and is an excellent grip for control.

 

[Duxtape]

But the straight armbar when they try to power out of it isn't.

 

[Gyro]

Didn't Marcelo garcia say similar something similar? A kimura from bottom definitely takes a lot of strength to go along with technique. Prying the wrist for leverage will help alot with that though.

 

[BJJkid94]

dude you could name a trillon details, you think you are the only one that knows them? flash news, you are not.

You thnk pro fighters who train with high elite instructors dont know details to finish the kimura? flash news, they do.

You think marcelo garcia doesnt know every single minor detail of the move, flash news, he does.

Thing is,the kimura does requieres strength or at least a typical body type for it to be executed. IF you are lanky and have long arms, is way easier to lock it up, thing is, you are going vs a much stronger dude, things get messy, if you have the arm fully bent, then yes of course you can finish it, problem is when you dont have it, and the guy you are facing is a bigger and stronger guy, is really really stop the guy from defending it.

The kimura grip however can be use in many different situations and is an excellent grip for control.

Haha why are you so angry?

GSP, who was always my favorite fighter, messed up on the kimura attempt from catchers both times and even admitted to doing so. GSP is elite and trains with elite level BJJ players. Even the best in the game don't know everything from every position.

And I hardly ever go for the kimura on bottom but I've finished it from top against much larger and stronger opponents many times, all because of the finer details in th technique. I'm not very big or strong at all either. Strength certainly helps but it can hinder too if someone just relies on their power to get them through.

 

[Irenaeus]

Not exclusively.

 

[Kneepocalypse]

Ronaldo Souza submited Marcelo Garcia with a kimura in ADCC...Only reason he could beat the technically superior Garcia was thru brute force from the closed guard...

LMAO. this guy.

 

[I WILL CUT YOU]

I get the perception of the kimura being a strong mans move, but I would have to say in its pure form it really isn't at all. The reason it's thought of this way is because a lot of grapplers miss the finer points/details of the submission,from top or bottom, and then compensate for their lack of technique but using all their arm strength. The figure four grip itself is one of the strongest out there and provides an immense amount of control; on top, the one applying focus on keeping a 90 degree bend in their opponents arm, and also keeping the wrist of the captured arm glued to the mat at all times. Then, after stepping over the opponents head and switching the hips, this exposes space between the mat and their opponents back, allowing for the captured arm to be behind the defenders back for the finish. I would say the best example I've seen of this is George Sotiropolous finishing Joe Lauzon; G-Sot trained with my academy during this time period and his kimuras were different and more deadly than I've ever seen.

If done properly, the attacker uses their entire body to finish the kimura, and the entire body will always be stronger than an isolated arm.

There are other grip details too from other positions that make a world of difference. Like when being applied from bottom, it's important to do a motorcycle rev (curl) with the wrists and keep the tricep of the captured arm glued to your chest, and then turning your hips and whole body, not just using the arms to rip the isolated arm free. Also, the catchers position, which GSP used against Hughes (third fight) and Hardy requires similar grip details for greater efficiency; it's important to keep the elbow to the chest, motorcycle curl the wrists, pull the wrist of the captured arm as close to the attackers own hips as possible, and then ripping the arm free with the body but also by pulling the arm away from the defenders grip first and then behind the back. If the opponents body is a vertical center line up and down, and the kimura needs to be applied on the left side of this line, the opponents grip should be broken by first ripping away to the right side of this line, because it's pulling away from the opponents grip, and is on their weak plane; trying to take the arm behind the back immediately plays into the direction of the defenders grip (if trying to grab their own arm or hand to defend).

Excellent post. I use long arms, leverage, my core, and my hips to finish a kumura.

 

[Hallelujah]

Somewhere Saku is laughing at you.

 

[Peteyandjia]

1. Listen to JRE
2. Copy quote from Marcelo Garcia
3. Post it on a forum as if it's your own thought
4. ?????
5. Profit