Kicking: Pads vs. Bag Question

[Teriasn]

I tend to over think things and I have massively confused myself in regard to proper Muay Thai kicking technique. Any thoughts on the following question would be helpful to me:

I am told that I am supposed to turn my leg so that I am landing squarely with my shin and so that I am not

 

[SunNovaGun]

I'd never really thought about it but I see what you're saying.

Two things come to mind.

1. Heavy bag workouts work technique and endurance while pad workouts are more coordination and reaction.

2. It's hard to hold pads such that you could kick them in a perfectly horizontal plane. Also when working out on pads you're generally kicking higher (head kick height) as opposed to a heavy bag where you're more often kicking at body or leg height.

 

[EVIL5150]

There are several types of round kick. Try thinking of 3 basic angles; 45

 

[dat1978]

I'd never really thought about it but I see what you're saying.

Two things come to mind.

1. Heavy bag workouts work technique and endurance while pad workouts are more coordination and reaction.

2. It's hard to hold pads such that you could kick them in a perfectly horizontal plane. Also when working out on pads you're generally kicking higher (head kick height) as opposed to a heavy bag where you're more often kicking at body or leg height.

its difficult to hold the pads perfectly vertical, but you can hold it enough that it doesn't hinder the kickers ability to turn over the hips and leg. when i teach people to hold pads i specifically say not to hold the pads at too much of a downward angle just for the reason the OP mentioned.

basically, imo its the pad holders that are not holding it right and forcing you to kick that way.

 

[c0r1nth14n]

I've never gotten a great explanation of which situations call for which kick, but it's like Evil5150 said - there's different angles. My coach has me doing a downward angle for low kicks, and then there's 3 different ones for body kicks - angled up, horizontal, and a horizontal one that lands differently and is supposed to push your opponent back more. My head kicks aren't good enough to even be working on that yet so I'm not sure about those, I'm still trying to get the form and the flexibility better.

 

[xilliun]

It's more to do with rolling your hip over onto the pads instead of you just throwing your kick upwards if you catch my drift.

 

[loyal2thegame]

If your leg is completely horizontal upon impact you are not hitting square with your shin. However, at about a 45 degree angle you are hitting with the thickest portion of the bone.

 

[EVIL5150]

If your leg is completely horizontal upon impact you are not hitting square with your shin. However, at about a 45 degree angle you are hitting with the thickest portion of the bone.

what are you talking about? are you afraid of hurting the shinbone?

I actually find the 45

 

[Bennosuke]

I've noticed different gyms put a different emphasis on a different type of kick. In general, the leg should strike the target at a perpendicular angle, to maximize force transmission (you would punch a wall from head on not from the side for this reason). For kicking the legs, you generally kick down. This allows you to sink more of your weight on impact, lands flusher on a bent leg, and is harder to catch (so I've heard). A body kick will either be thrown at an upward angle (much faster) or horizontal (parallel to the ground. I prefer the later as it is stronger and this is how I was initially taught, however I know people who only use the angled kick. For high kicks, it really depends on your flexibility.

In general, it is easier to hold pads for mid and high kicks at a downward angle, as you can use a bit of your body weight to support your arms and your arms are in a stronger position.

 

[phanattic]

pads are only good if the person holding them knows what they're doing

 

[loyal2thegame]

what are you talking about? are you afraid of hurting the shinbone?

Just what I said stupid. Where does it say anything about being afraid?

 

[Teriasn]

It's more to do with rolling your hip over onto the pads instead of you just throwing your kick upwards if you catch my drift.

I am not sure I do. Rolling your hips I take to mean that, on the moment of impact, my pelvis is vertical. Another way to say it would be that the plane made between my two femurs is a plane that runs perpendicular to the general plane formed by the ground. Is this correct?

 

[Teriasn]

If your leg is completely horizontal upon impact you are not hitting square with your shin. However, at about a 45 degree angle you are hitting with the thickest portion of the bone.

Are we to hit 'squarely' with the shin or the 'edge' of it? My knowledge of anatomy isn't sufficient and I am unable to find a good picture. But, it seems to me that turning it to be horizontal impact lands with the 'sharp' edge where is the kick is going upwards at an angle we are landing with the flatter part of the tibia.

 

[Teriasn]

I've never gotten a great explanation of which situations call for which kick, but it's like Evil5150 said - there's different angles. My coach has me doing a downward angle for low kicks, and then there's 3 different ones for body kicks - angled up, horizontal, and a horizontal one that lands differently and is supposed to push your opponent back more. My head kicks aren't good enough to even be working on that yet so I'm not sure about those, I'm still trying to get the form and the flexibility better.

With a downward kick, would it be true to say that you need to put some bend in your knee? It seems like one has to do that or one has to start the trajectory of the kick "further back" then they would with a horizontal or upward kick in order for it to work 'anatomy wise.'

 

[loyal2thegame]

Are we to hit 'squarely' with the shin or the 'edge' of it? My knowledge of anatomy isn't sufficient and I am unable to find a good picture. But, it seems to me that turning it to be horizontal impact lands with the 'sharp' edge where is the kick is going upwards at an angle we are landing with the flatter part of the tibia.

Yes, you are correct. Ideally you want to land with the flatter part of the tibia.

 

[xilliun]

I am not sure I do. Rolling your hips I take to mean that, on the moment of impact, my pelvis is vertical. Another way to say it would be that the plane made between my two femurs is a plane that runs perpendicular to the general plane formed by the ground. Is this correct?

I think i understand what you're saying, the leg making impact upon the ribs would ideally be running parallel to the ground.

Are we to hit 'squarely' with the shin or the 'edge' of it? My knowledge of anatomy isn't sufficient and I am unable to find a good picture. But, it seems to me that turning it to be horizontal impact lands with the 'sharp' edge where is the kick is going upwards at an angle we are landing with the flatter part of the tibia.

I asked my trainer about this tonight since I'd been wondering the same thing. His explanation was that you can't really roll your hips over and still land with the flat part of the shin, so therefore, you connect with the 'edge' so to say. I tried them both out on the bag today, I believe they're two different kicks stylistically with more power being generated when you roll your hips over and land with the described edge of the shin.

 

[Teriasn]

Yes, you are correct. Ideally you want to land with the flatter part of the tibia.

Which necessitates "kicking upwards"/"not turning the hip"?

What I've taken from this thread in the general sense is not to think of the "Thai Kick", but to think of tons of different variations. I was working under the presumption that there was only 'one right kick' and so I was confusing the shit out of myself with all the seemingly contrary advice/techniques.

 

[loyal2thegame]

Which necessitates "kicking upwards"/"not turning the hip"?

No. Watch any video of a nak muay bangin pads. They are landing with the leg at a 45 degree angle and are still doing a full rotation of the hips. Here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO-I6uyxzSw>

 

[xilliun]

No. Watch any video of a nak muay bangin pads. They are landing with the leg at a 45 degree angle and are still doing a full rotation of the hips. Here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO-I6uyxzSw>

Just finished watching it, paused every time a roundhouse was thrown. I think we might be describing the same kicking motion only using different wording.

 

[Bennosuke]

No. Watch any video of a nak muay bangin pads. They are landing with the leg at a 45 degree angle and are still doing a full rotation of the hips. Here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO-I6uyxzSw>

In my humble opinion (which may not mean much), the issue is not whether or not the hips turn, but how flush the kick lands on its target. I can pivot my leg then swing my hips, without kicking or with my leg in any position you want. More hip turning means more force production.

However, the angle of the kick will depend on the surface you want to strike. I view the angle kick as good against ribs, which form a surface that is not perpendicular to the floor. Kicking the liver or stomach area is better for a kick that travels parallel to the ground.