Kickboxing vs Muay Thai

[radman]

Kickboxers generally use more foot work and seem to use alot of spinning TKD'ish style kicks from what I've seen. I don't think they use elbows either.

QUOTE=JWP;21898361]One of the pics from the show.

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/6356/jumpru5.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a><br/>[/QUOTE]

Hmmmm.... tell that to John Wayne Parr.:icon_chee

 

[Ben Stigar]

And then there is Savate - which is certainly kickboxing these days. The footwork is a tad different, the chasse has more emphasis than the teep as a distance-keeper (and the chasse is, some would say, the most important kick in Savate), and naturally the use of the toe as a point of impact makes the feel of a Savate match much more discrete when it comes to long- and short- range.
I would say that each form of kickboxing is most identifiable by its subtle variation in the ranges fighters prefer (from a kicking and clinching perspective?), and how they go about closing or creating distance. So in Savate there is a strong emphasis on boxing because so many combinations and techniques are used to setup a chasse or fouette (the ranges for these kicks are somewhat longer than a MT kick, and they have no knees or knee-kicks). In MT, the kicks seem to be more forgiving of proximity - and tend to be shorter-range. So in MT many fighters use handwork to setup a bomb via the knee, clinch, or kick. But that's a VERY generalized statement. There are plenty of decent boxers practicing MT.
I could be wrong...probably I'm over-simplifying. But if you watch a MT match and then watch a decent Savate fight, they look quite different to the trained eye. Right? And I remember American Kickboxing on ESPN back in the 80s...it did not resemble MT as much back then.
BUT overall kickboxing is kickboxing from a 5000-foot view. That is, if you standardized techniques and attacks (knees, clinch, takedown, elbows, etc.)- but then everything starts looking like MT when the MT techniques are added, and without shoes Savate changes a tad, and with leg checks and elbows it looks less and less "Savaty." So I think there are differences that must be acknowledged.

 

[Payak]

Muay Thai and Kickboxing are not even remotely similar.
Kickboxing evolved from Full contact Karate tournaments. Muay Thai evolved From Muay Boran and Muay Chaya, Kicks, stance,and strategy are all different, not to mention the elbows Knees and Clinch.

 

[White Snake]

Depends on the rules. "Kickboxing" in this country at least is seen as:

Kicks only above the waist.
No knees/elbows.

But some places its seen as basically Muay Thai without elbows. It depends on the country and the rules used for competition.

This is correct. Even though a lot of UFC fighters train in Muay Thai, what they are doing is really kickboxing because of the various knees and elbows that are banned.

 

[Never_Back_Down]

kickboxing is such a broad term that there is so many variations of it

 

[Mef-ninja]

Honestly, there is very little difference between Kickboxing and Muay thai, aside from the Elbow rule.

A couple decades back, kickboxing used to be it's own sport, with Karate/TKD guys & boxing thrown in. Nowadays there is a VERY heavy Muay Thai influence in kickboxing. Kickboxing also contributed to the punching techniques in modern Muay Thai.

It really is one big clusterfuck. Almost everyone that considers themselves a kickboxer uses Thai kicks nowadays, with a little Karate or whatver thrown in.

Most Pro kickboxing matches utilize leg kicks. Guess where they got them from? I would consider K-1 Kickboxing.

Dutch Kickboxers also consider themselves Muay Thai practicioners too. But they're style is different, it has strong Japanese influence with roots in Kyokushin Karate, Muay Thai, and Boxing. That's why if you go to a dutch gym, you will notice that some of them count in japanese. Or do traditional Japanese MA customs like kneeling and bowing.

For me, i just consider Muay Thai as a style with Lots of Clinching and Elbow practice. Everything else is Kickboxing. It's easier that way.

The lines are really blurred on this subject.

karate uses leg kicks too...

 

[RJ Powell**]

karate uses leg kicks too...

Modern combat KO Karate uses leg kicks like Kyokushinkai, Seidokan, and off-shoots.

 

[Ifight4Beer]

dutch KB I have heard called MT kickboxing and I like their style a little more the way most of them set up there leg kicks with punches I see a differance but hey they are both tried and effective methods in MMA

 

[stlnl2]

Muay Thai and Kickboxing are not even remotely similar.
Kickboxing evolved from Full contact Karate tournaments. Muay Thai evolved From Muay Boran and Muay Chaya, Kicks, stance,and strategy are all different, not to mention the elbows Knees and Clinch.

That would depend a whole lot on what you are saying kickboxing is, 80's PKA kickboxing or K-1/dutch kickboxing? Because I have to say the dutch kickboxers and Thai are similar in ALOT of ways. Are they different in how much knees are used and no elblows? Sure, but they have alot of overlapping similarities as well. I think you should qualify your definition of kickboxing a bit more if you are going to say they are not remotely similar. I you mean bad hair, slick track pants and funny booties then sure I agree, but kickboxing is MUCH broader than PKA stuff now a days.

 

[chino0503]

Watered down? Tell that to the Dutch fighters! hehe

In my own opinion I usually attribute kickboxing with better orthodox boxing in terms of technique and movement.

you mean dutch THAI boxers? i had an argument with some dude the other day. he was saying all dutch fighters were "european kickboxers"..... made me laugh my ass off.

i think how they keep there hands is different
plus obviously MT has the Thai clinch
they also use more elbows and knees.
MT is basically just more violent
i still basically say it's kickboxing though
I call it Muay Thai Kickboxing when people ask what muay thai is

when i say muay thai and people dont understand..... i just say muay means boxing, thai means thai..... thai boxing

 

[Payak]

don't you guys forgot the dutch were trained in Thailand, thats why there similar.
but I think if people believe KB and MT are similar then perhaps you havent studied the two in depth.

 

[Furia_fighter]

Really it depends on where you go to learn "kickboxing" Some gyms will teach Muay Thai. Others full contact Karate, etc...

I always find kickboxing to mean all aspects of stand up striking. Western boxing for punches, TKD/Karate/Muay Thai for kicks knees and clinch work.

Putting it all together in to a style that FITS YOU! Is the challenge.

 

[jmcorro]

Typically when someone says kickboxing and specifically differentiating it from MT, it usually means Full-Contact style rules which was much more prevalent in the 80s and early 90s. As stated before, Full Contact rules evolved from point karate of the late 70s/early 80s.

Full contact style has the following characteristics:
- Hand combinations resemble more traditional boxing combos w/ the spinning backfist being the main exception.
- More head movement (from the boxing influence)
- Combinations tend to start w/ kicks and end w/ punches
- Favoring the lead leg to "probe" is very common (e.g. lead leg side/round/hook kick)
- Clinch work resembles boxing (e.g. rabbit punches, tieing up the arms waiting for the ref to break it)
- FC fighters tend to be much more adept at going between south paw and orthodox stances
- "Chambering" kicks is very common.
- On punch/kick combinations, you'll kick on the same side as your last punch. For instance, on say a jab/cross/roundhouse kick combination...you'll jab w/ your left, cross w/ your right, and roundhouse kick w/ your right. You'll also likely stepdown w/ your right leg so that you land in a southpaw stance.
- You tend to spar hard (~80%) as a normal part of training whether you have a fight coming up or not.

Muy Thai has some distinctly different characteristics:
- Hand combinations are similar to boxing too, but to me they're "mutated" because of things like elbows. The punching itself is also less technical (IMO), but still very lethal because the basics are all still there. When I say less technical I mean like complex head weaving/bobbing and coming back w/ hooks/cross. The crucials (e.g. timing) are still very much there.
- Less head movement...the rationale as explained to me by some of the thai trainers was because of the kicks/knees. My personal opinion is that the old school "no pain" defense has a role in that too.
- Combinations tend to be the exact opposite of FC. They tend to start w/ punches and end w/ kicks (at least from the thais I learned from...I find that the Americanized version of thai boxing still opens up w/ kicks).
- Clinch work is obviously very different
- You tend not to go between stances in MT.
- The notion of "chambering" a kick doesn't really exist. Lots of emphasis on the hips and shoulders.
- Punch/kick combinations do things opposite of FC...you kick w/ the opposite leg of your last punch. So on the jab/cross/kick combo, you'd jab w/ your left, cross w/ your right, then do a (switch) kick w/ your left leg.
- You tend to "play kick" when you don't have a fight and then do live sparring when you have an actual fight.


There is International Rules also which is more like the K1 and European style. I haven't found this ruleset to have its own style per se. It seems you either get FC'ers who just add leg kicks or MT'ers who just have to do w/o clinching.

The comment about MT focusing on single movements isn't accurate for modern MT. The "old school" (e.g 80s and earlier) style was more like that, but if you watch a well conditioned thai boxer doing pad work...its just insane. The combinations are literally non-stop. The old school style focused more on power; whereas, the more modern style is more about speed.

 

[Payak]

Muay Thai is More then just Kicks punches knees and elbows or whatever, It has customs and traditions that go well beyond just the Waikru.
Muay Thai is not a set of ring rules it is a Traditional Martial art.
learn about the history,magic and superstitions of Muay Thai.

 

[blue77]

yeah muay thai figters hands are usually less lethal than KB

The savage elbows,knees,and low kicks make up for it but yes the kickboxing stance is much more like a boxer hence the more powerful punches.Muay Thai fighters are usually better at defending punches though so there is a good trade off IMO.Alot of MMA guys use a combination of the 2 for their stand up technique.

Kind of like Bruce Lee did he took the combo of kung fu and blended in american boxing,kickboxing,karate,and thai boxing,and judo.End result a very versatile set of striking,grappling and throwing techniques :icon_chee

 

[blue77]

yeah muay thai figters hands are usually less lethal than KB

The savage elbows,knees,and low kicks make up for it but yes the kickboxing stance is much more like a boxer hence the more powerful punches.Muay Thai fighters are usually better at defending punches though so there is a good trade off IMO.Alot of MMA guys use a combination of the 2 for their stand up technique.

Kind of like Bruce Lee did he took the combo of kung fu and blended in american boxing,kickboxing,karate,and thai boxing,and judo.End result a very versatile set of striking,grappling and throwing techniques :icon_chee