KGB defector Yuri Beznemov on ideological subversion (or psychological warfare)

[DatWall]

"Ideological subversion, or psychological warfare, is a process that is legitimate, overt and open... . What it basically means, is to change the perception of reality of every American, to such an extent that despite an abundance of information, no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interest of defending themselves, their families, their community and their country. Its a great brainwashing process that goes very slow, and is divided into four basic stages: The first one being demoralization. It takes from 15 to 20 years to demoralize a nation. Why that many years? Because this is the minimum number of years required to educate one generation of students in the country of your enemy. Exposed to the ideology of the enemy, in other words Marxism-Leninism ideology is being pumped into the soft heads of at least three generations of American students, without being challenged or counterbalanced by the basic values of Americanism, American patriotism.
The result? The result you can see. Most of the people who graduated in the 60's, drop outs or half baked intellectuals, are now occupying the positions of power in the government, civil service, business, mass media, educational system. You are stuck with them. You cannot get rid of them. They are contaminated. They are programmed to think and react to certain stimuli in a certain patter. You cannot change their mind, even if you expose them to authentic information. Even if you prove that white is white and black is black, you cannot change the perception and logic of behavior. In other words the process of demoralization is complete and irreversible. To rid society of these people, you need another 15 or 20 years, to educate a new generation of patriotically minded and common sense people, who will be acting in favor and in the interest of United States society... If you are not scared by now, nothing can scare you... The time bomb is ticking, the disaster is coming closer and closer, and unlike myself, you have no where to defect to. This is the last country of freedom and possibility."
-Yuri Bezmenov, former member of elite propaganda arm of the KGB.

Clip


Full interview

 

[TheGreatA]

It is a rough business, brain-washing people. KGB were the masters of it. For a long time, they were able to convince the people in the Soviet Union that it was the best thing around.

Truly horrifying to think that you may just have been under the same kind of a psychological assault throughout your whole life as those people were, from the moment you came out of the womb. Never really had a chance to become your own person.

 

[Deleted member 53472]

It is a rough business, brain-washing people. KGB were the masters of it. For a long time, they were able to convince the people in the Soviet Union that it was the best thing around.

Truly horrifying to think that you may just have been under the same kind of a psychological assault throughout your whole life as those people were, from the moment you came out of the womb. Never really had a chance to become your own person.

nah, Russians are very cynical and most knew the government is a joke and Soviet propaganda was bullshit... they just didn't say it out loud and didn't care enough to revolt. Same thing today, people prefer "stability" - most know the government is corrupt and doesn't care about the country, but as long as there's a sort of regularity (stable income, food, entertainment), even if its crappy for a lot of the population, the majority doesn't really care and doesn't want any radical changes (afraid that chaos would replace this). When there will be no money and food left, only then, maybe.. because even war won't phase people anymore. Take eastern Ukraine for instance. There's footage on youtube when the whole conflict was in the beginning stages. Street fighting, bullets flying, grenades, smoke bombs... and among all of that, people walking to grocery stores with bags as if nothing is happening near them.

The best way to become your own person is to just absorb as much of different information and experiences as possible.

And, a lot of deception ends quickly when money comes into play. For some reason, many people tend to smarten up and think independently all of a sudden if you touch their wallet lol

 

[5H3RD0G]

That's the world in a nut shell.

 

[IDL]

Bezmenov interviews are great. Helps to explain a lot of what we're seeing today especially coming out of the school system in terms of cultural Marxism.

The subversion programs never ended when the cold war wound down in large part because they were supported by powerful people within the US.

 

[Thurisaz]

Antonio Gramsci was the one who came up with the tools that have been used since to saw the branch the West sits on.

The Marxists have made near perfect success. The only folks completely immune to their propaganda have proven to be religious.

 

[IDL]

Antonio Gramsci was the one who came up with the tools that have been used since to saw the branch the West sits on.

The Marxists have made near perfect success. The only folks completely immune to their propaganda have proven to be religious.

There are a lot of people that understand what they are doing, that aren't religious. I agree though the religious people tend to have a higher resistance to it in the general population largely because they have their own philosophies and values so are less malleable.

Probably a big reason why the Marxists tend to view religions as a threat.

 

[Thurisaz]

There are a lot of people that understand what they are doing, that aren't religious.

Somewhat true, yes. I saw through their game before my conversion most of the time, but didn't notice where their rot had gotten through until I converted. It's really hard to stay alert about all the things they peddle, especially when they carry no personal meaning to you whatsoever.

I agree though the religious people tend to have a higher resistance to it in the general population largely because they have their own philosophies and values so are less malleable.

Probably a big reason why the Marxists tend to view religions as a threat.

Not "a threat", it's "the threat". Christianity is completely incompatible with Marxist worldview, which is why it was their first target.

 

[TheGreatA]

nah, Russians are very cynical and most knew the government is a joke and Soviet propaganda was bullshit... they just didn't say it out loud and didn't care enough to revolt. Same thing today, people prefer "stability" - most know the government is corrupt and doesn't care about the country, but as long as there's a sort of regularity (stable income, food, entertainment), even if its crappy for a lot of the population, the majority doesn't really care and doesn't want any radical changes (afraid that chaos would replace this). When there will be no money and food left, only then, maybe.. because even war won't phase people anymore. Take eastern Ukraine for instance. There's footage on youtube when the whole conflict was in the beginning stages. Street fighting, bullets flying, grenades, smoke bombs... and among all of that, people walking to grocery stores with bags as if nothing is happening near them.

The best way to become your own person is to just absorb as much of different information and experiences as possible.

And, a lot of deception ends quickly when money comes into play. For some reason, many people tend to smarten up and think independently all of a sudden if you touch their wallet lol

Russia wasn't the only country that was part of the Soviet Union though. I'd say that the majority of the propaganda needed to be directed at the citizens of countries that had essentially been occupied.

 

[Madmick]

So let me get this straight.

The Russians engineered the American Civil Rights Revolution, in the 1960's, when they themselves were Communists, because they believed that Communist ideas weakened a nation's ability to ideologically defend its core virtues, and was certain to undermine American strength in the long-term, fail, and collapse American government/civilization? FFS. Tell me: how did Russia control our education system to "demoralize" us? How did they "confuse" us when we remained virulently anti-Communist and anti-Soviet all the way through the 1980's when we successfully engineered the Soviet collapse?

Yeah, real fucking geniuses there. Clearly they were super successful.


You know what he's describing? He's describing RussiaToday. Ironically, that channel is feeding our extreme political right, and the other various CT-types stupid and fearful enough to drink this shit up as if it is (or has ever been) a legitimate, effective strategic threat.

 

[ZBORNAJA]

Russia wasn't the only country that was part of the Soviet Union though. I'd say that the majority of the propaganda needed to be directed at the citizens of countries that had essentially been occupied.

And yet again his points is still the same. Yes, there is always this small minorty of people who eat and drink everything system serve them. But majority people knew the bullshit and there came a point when even goverments couldnt pretend anymore...
People outside of SU were even more cynical and knew what is all about...

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

So let me get this straight.

The Russians engineered the American Civil Rights Revolution, in the 1960's, when they themselves were Communists, because they believed that Communist ideas weakened a nation's ability to ideologically defend its core virtues, and was certain to undermine American strength in the long-term, fail, and collapse American government/civilization? FFS. Tell me: how did Russia control our education system to "demoralize" us? How did they "confuse" us when we remained virulently anti-Communist and anti-Soviet all the way through the 1980's when we successfully engineered the Soviet collapse?

Yeah, real fucking geniuses there. Clearly they were super successful.


You know what he's describing? He's describing RussiaToday. Ironically, that channel is feeding our extreme political right, and the other various CT-types stupid and fearful enough to drink this shit up as if it is (or has ever been) a legitimate, effective strategic threat.

I think it is bullshit but the idea is not that they fed marxism to make the USA fail, but to cause a communist revolution so they would become allies, two succesful communist countries en route to a communist world.

The defector thinks it is bad because he is anti communism, but

 

[44nutman]

Worked real well in Russia

 

[TheGreatA]

And yet again his points is still the same. Yes, there is always this small minorty of people who eat and drink everything system serve them. But majority people knew the bullshit and there came a point when even goverments couldnt pretend anymore...
People outside of SU were even more cynical and knew what is all about...

I seriously doubt that the majority of the people knew it was "bullshit". The people wouldn't have fought like wounded animals for something that they thought was bullshit. The propaganda and terror during Stalin's era was immense, and cannot be compared to the Soviet Union of later eras, under the likes of Gorbachev.

For example, when the Soviets invaded Finland, those people fully bought the propaganda that the tiny Finland had actually invaded the Soviet Union. When the Soviet soldiers came across German cities, they could not believe how well the Germans had it, which resulted to a lot of rapes and pillaging. The living standards of early Soviet Union were very low, and it is unlikely that the people knew of anything better.

The propaganda was extremely effective in molding the Soviet army into a unit which was capable of sacrificing itself in extremely large numbers, while in World War I the fighting morale had been very low by comparison.

 

[ZBORNAJA]

I seriously doubt that the majority of the people knew it was "bullshit". The people wouldn't have fought like wounded animals for something that they thought was bullshit. The propaganda and terror during Stalin's era was immense, and cannot be compared to the Soviet Union of later eras, under the likes of Gorbachev.

For example, when the Soviets invaded Finland, those people fully bought the propaganda that the tiny Finland had actually invaded the Soviet Union. When the Soviet soldiers came across German cities, they could not believe how well the Germans had it, which resulted to a lot of rapes and pillaging. The living standards of early Soviet Union were very low, and it is unlikely that the people knew of anything better.

The propaganda was extremely effective in molding the Soviet army into a unit which was capable of sacrificing itself in extremely large numbers, while in World War I the fighting morale had been very low by comparison.

You are talking about propaganda in Russia in 1939? For mostly unedicated, rural pesants? How hard was it to brainwash these people? Even i could do it now...
The point we are talking here is about propaganda after second world war. The most people got educated, started thinking, getting news on TV and radio. In 80's people were cynical, communism was ridiculed, many jokes..System got softer.. Yes it still wasnt safe to just go out and just curse all the leaders and governement. But in 50's with Stalin you would get shot. In 80's they put you for one day in prison to sober up...

And i dont know what kind of propaganda is needed to fight as lion in second world war on east after all the shit germans did to soviet civilians.

 

[TheGreatA]

You are talking about propaganda in Russia in 1939? For mostly unedicated, rural pesants? How hard was it to brainwash these people? Even i could do it now...
The point we are talking here is about propaganda after second world war. The most people got educated, started thinking, getting news on TV and radio. In 80's people were cynical, communism was ridiculed, many jokes..System got softer.. Yes it still wasnt safe to just go out and just curse all the leaders and governement. But in 50's with Stalin you would get shot. In 80's they put you for one day in prison to sober up...

And i dont know what kind of propaganda is needed to fight as lion in second world war on east after all the shit germans did to soviet civilians.

Apparently it was pretty difficult for the Czar.

The system got soft, it is not that the propaganda became less effective, they just didn't utilize it as much. Propaganda is still pretty effective in places like North Korea, and to some extent, Russia as well.

Propaganda is even more necessary when fighting a fearsome enemy that has already slain millions of people. Just look at how 10,000 ISIS guys have sent millions of Syrians and Iraqis fleeing from their lands. Imagine having to face millions of Nazi invaders... Not any man could do it, not without an exceptionally strong love for their motherland.

 

[colby25]

There are a lot of people that understand what they are doing, that aren't religious. I agree though the religious people tend to have a higher resistance to it in the general population largely because they have their own philosophies and values so are less malleable.

Probably a big reason why the Marxists tend to view religions as a threat.

As the old saying goes, "ya got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything."

 

[IDL]

Apparently it was pretty difficult for the Czar.

The system got soft, it is not that the propaganda became less effective, they just didn't utilize it as much. Propaganda is still pretty effective in places like North Korea, and to some extent, Russia as well.

Propaganda is even more necessary when fighting a fearsome enemy that has already slain millions of people. Just look at how 10,000 ISIS guys have sent millions of Syrians and Iraqis fleeing from their lands. Imagine having to face millions of Nazi invaders... Not any man could do it, not without an exceptionally strong love for their motherland.

Propoganda and social control techniques are far more sophisticated and scientifically advanced now than they ever were at any time in human history.

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

It would not be wise to make what Yuri Beznemov said more known to the public.

 

[TheGreatA]

Propoganda and social control techniques are far more sophisticated and scientifically advanced now than they ever were at any time in human history.

They are. There's no longer a need for the kind of brutish techniques that Stalin used to subjugate a population. You don't even need to do surveillance as the people themselves are happy to do the job with their fancy "smart" phones.