Keysi Figthing Method (KFM) discussion

fourfif said:
Who would win in a fight, Royce Gracie or Batman??

If you answered, Batman... then POW!! KFM wins again!
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It depends on the Batman. Christian Bale would lose. He couldn't even beat The Governator in a fist fight, so he wouldn't be able to beat Hoyce!
The Batman of old that scored a "POW!", "ZOCK!", "WHACK!", "WHAM!", "THUD!" with every single blow would have a much better chance of beating Hoyce via KO.
 
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This thread really started in 2005 and then went few years before being ttt'd and then dies and then is resurected again after another couple years......
 
Title Fight Productions said:
This thread really started in 2005 and then went few years before being ttt'd and then dies and then is resurected again after another couple years......
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Resurrected by a new user with one post, being the one he bumped the thread with.

I call shenanigans.
 
'that requires superior leg and upper body strength'

Not brilliant if you weigh under 13/14 stone and aren't a gym rat then?
 
predatorscout said:
Keysi is a very unique system and to say it can't be used in MMA is a little close minded.

If you want to see the applications of it's techniques check out KFM Training on YouTube by Andy Norman, one of the founders of the style. It's geared specifically for MMA matches. The techniques he shows use the system within the rules of the sport and they are very effective, especially in opening areas for striking from the closed guard and mounted positions.

MMA is supposed to be Mixed - incoporating all sorts of styles in combat.

As far as I can see, the techniques can be used in the ring with realiabilty....if you train hard at it, of course....
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Allow me to translate:

"I train/teach this obscure style. I decided to Google the name for whatever reason, and this thread came up. I didn't like what I saw and felt the need to assert that what I'm training/teaching actually has value, so I created an account for the sole purpose of making this post and dragging up a long-dead thread to say something so transparent that anyone would have assumed someone in my position would say it."
 
Keysi interests me on a certain level, but it's not overly unique. Just combine Crazy Monkey Boxing with Muay Thai and using your elbows more and you have Keysi essentially.
 
I found out about Keysi Fighting Method (KFM) on deviantArt, of all places, while searching through martial arts photography. Given the comments about it by the photographer (who trains in it) I looked it up and from everything I could find it certainly appears to have more shortcomings than advantages as an art, but if people want to train in it it's better than training in nothing at all. I realize that this is a twice-necro'd thread but I figured it couldn't hurt to add onto it for anyone doing research on the style before joining it.

Allow me to preface this with the fact that I've only been training in martial arts for about 5 years, but I have trained in both striking (karate) and grappling (judo and Japanese jujutsu, plus a bit of wrestling).

The grappling, or at least the joint locking, is weak and sloppy. They have some interesting and potentially valuable concepts in how to apply the grappling, but it generally seems to be poorly executed, even in demonstration videos made by the founders. The Thinking Man guard position is probably very good at protecting their head but it severely limits their vision, and they do seem to keep that position a lot more often than just when a strike is coming at them, so they are not going to see the strike to the liver or kidneys that sends them to the hospital because they are so worried about their head and face. The striking comes a lot from that Thinking Man guard and they seem to like to work flowing sets of strikes, which is all okay but the practitioners I watched seem to be slow, telegraphing, and have rather poor control over their techniques in general. For self defense I certainly could not recommend this style on its own--it will give you a well-protected head and the most basic striking and grappling possible, and that's about all--but if you were actively training in other arts as well it might not be so bad because, as I said, they have some interesting and potentially useful concepts. As for MMA, if you're already cross training in other arts then there probably isn't much use for KFM for you because most of those concepts that would be interesting to explore are self defense based, not competition based.

Just my take on it. You can allow the thread to die again :)
 
Re-bumping this thread since it's only a few months since the last bump, my new MMA coach is certified in a variety of martial arts, KFM included. I was Google'ing KFM to understand my instructors background more and saw this thread.

The dude was Naval nuclear weapons security, a dignitary bodyguard in Iraq, and was a close-quarters combat instructor for Blackwater (when it was still mercenary/notorious Blackwater). I bring up his resume because his fighting styles have to be functional, and if he believes in KFM, then it's got to mean something. If Blackwater hired this guy to train their mercenaries --many of whom are SEALs, Rangers, Delta-- then he's got to be above them in fighting technique and have a foundation in applicable, real world fighting situations.

That all being said, he's certified in a variety of martials arts, Filipino included. While I haven't trained in KFM, the guy seems legit, so if he advocates KFM, then I'll buy it.

I don't think it's the end all martial art though, obviously. From what he's told me, it's similar to Krav in the sense of simplistic movements, brutal contact, and survival mentality, and that's not applicable in the cage. The problem with these simplistic survival styles is because they're easy to remember, they're easy to teach. And if their easy to teach then constant seminars to certify other instructors = pyramid scheme. I saw this with HaganaH at my other school: one year of practice and the "coach" became certified after a week-long seminar, now charges $70 a person in his classes... after one year of practice!!!. I'm not saying KFM is a pyramid scheme, just saying I see the possibility. But like I said, with my new coaches resume I imagine it has to be legit to survive in his combat situations.

Edit: The wardancing comment was gold.
 
zipit777 said:
To be perfectlly honest with you about all your posts, you speak from a demo, a clip here or there on youtube and so on.
I PERSONALLY trained with the founders in SPain and I have found it to be a perfect and NECESSARRY BLEND TO MMA or any other Martial Arts you train.
You have no idea why they cover there heads "sometimes" and I HIGHLY recommend that you visit a SEMINAR DIRECTLY from Justo and Andy this OCTOBER at Combatives USA Self Defense Training Center in Long Island....

They even are in the process of creating an MMA team, so until ten, test the waters first,,,I heard the same crap about vforce fighting, until one of my friends went and said "DUDE I WAS SO WRONG, THAT INSTRUCTOR KICKS ASS...."

I dont knock anyones opinion, but I take it as just that opinion....Until I see it and TRAIN in it, I say nothing bad about anothers system.

Peace Guys - Zipit
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well put ive been looking into this system and have had the same opinions that everyone else has about only defending the face and leaving the mid section wide open but i talked to an instructor near me and he said the stuff in the videos are only teasers
 
This thread is remarkably short for so many bad bumps.

I don't know much about it except that:

1) The instructor certification process on their website is kind of pyramid scheme-y.

2) I sparred with a KFM instructor a year ago or so, and I hope they don't claim to teach grappling. He seemed like a cool guy though.

judogido said:
.... this incredible Martial Art.....an extreme Martial Art.......Its founder, Justo Dieguez is considered by many to be a hand to hand combat genius.......one of the most dynamic and realistic Martial Arts for the modern day.......is based on a series of tight, controlled, efficient movements............can be applied to fighting in any environmen........against multiple attackers from all directions.
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I've never heard of it. The stuff just sounds like a marketing "spiel" to me. I'd be wary about statements like: "Justo Dieguez is considered by many to be a hand to hand combat genius" and "can be applied to fighting in any environment, against multiple attackers from all directions"

It might be OK but I wouldnt be holding my breath. I checked at Bullshido but no-one seems to know anything there either. Has anyone heard of the KEYSI Fighting Method?
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zipit777 said:
To be perfectlly honest with you about all your posts, you speak from a demo, a clip here or there on youtube and so on.
I PERSONALLY trained with the founders in SPain and I have found it to be a perfect and NECESSARRY BLEND TO MMA or any other Martial Arts you train.
You have no idea why they cover there heads "sometimes" and I HIGHLY recommend that you visit a SEMINAR DIRECTLY from Justo and Andy this OCTOBER at Combatives USA Self Defense Training Center in Long Island....

They even are in the process of creating an MMA team, so until ten, test the waters first,,,I heard the same crap about vforce fighting, until one of my friends went and said "DUDE I WAS SO WRONG, THAT INSTRUCTOR KICKS ASS...."

I dont knock anyones opinion, but I take it as just that opinion....Until I see it and TRAIN in it, I say nothing bad about anothers system.

Peace Guys - Zipit
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These two posts went very well together.
 
I've looked into this quite a bit in the last couple of years. The grappling aspect has huge gaping holes. The striking aspect might have its use as a exercise to maintain balance and stability when you're being blasted in the pocket but anytime you have a high guard like that to protect your head you're going to effect your field of vision no matter how much you keep moving it. Protecting your head and using your elbows to break out of clinch range would be ok, but if you're at punching range against a good Boxer he'll use your limited vision as an opportunity to angle off to a blind spot and pick you apart especially if you drop your hands to see where he's gone to.

KFM has potential but doesn't offer anything revolutionary. You're better off learning the close quarter aspect of Muay Thai and clinch fighting, and maybe that Crazy Monkey boxing where you're not blinding yourself as much.
 
Law Bob Loblaw said:
The dude was Naval nuclear weapons security, a dignitary bodyguard in Iraq, and was a close-quarters combat instructor for Blackwater (when it was still mercenary/notorious Blackwater). I bring up his resume because his fighting styles have to be functional, and if he believes in KFM, then it's got to mean something. If Blackwater hired this guy to train their mercenaries --many of whom are SEALs, Rangers, Delta-- then he's got to be above them in fighting technique and have a foundation in applicable, real world fighting situations.
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Who's your coach? Always gotta double check people who claim military background (as it could be used for personal gain.) We all know what happened with Deadliest Warriors' advisor who claimed to be a Green Beret...
 
lethalazn said:
Who's your coach? Always gotta double check people who claim military background (as it could be used for personal gain.) We all know what happened with Deadliest Warriors' advisor who claimed to be a Green Beret...
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what did it happen?
 
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