Kenny Florian: Woodley Will Surpass GSP As WW GOAT

[The ScorpioN]

Alves was on steroids?

GSP must have been on some good creatine and whey protein, because he was just as big as Alves.

Most definitely.

 

[PROlogic]

I like Kenny, and usually always agree with Kenny, but Kenny is way off here

Shields out grappled Maia (Shields beat Woodley cough cough) Shields is a wayyyyy better grappler then Maia.

And it doesnt matter if Wonderboy is a better striker then anyone Gsp has ever fought. Wonderboy is not a better striker then Gsp. Gsp would've beaten Wonderboy far more impressively then Woodley ever did

Gsp>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Woodley


Woodley hasn't even passed Matt Hughes yet

 

[MMAart]

Barely survived the first Wonderboy fight, the second was boring af as neither fighter wanted to engage, the Maia fight showed Woodley has great TDD, but that's all that stood out to me as he was not engaging in the fight at all and had that fight go down as a fight with the least amount of strikes thrown in UFC History, but the victories over Lawler and Till are solid, although I think Lawler was pretty shot from the wars with Matt Brown, TRT Hendricks x2, then MacDonald, and Condit..

But, look at GSP's rèsumè and look at Woodley's.. it's not hard to distinguish who the GOAT is.

You're right, Thompson barely survived that fight.

 

[MMAart]

Most definitely.

And GSP was on creatine and whey protein?

 

[DoopidyDawesome]

Kenflo stealing shit from Sherdog now.

 

[The ScorpioN]

And GSP was on creatine and whey protein?

I said most definitely that GSP was (always was) on serious multivitamins. You don't become one of the GOAT by fighting juicers on chicken and rice.

The point I was drawing with Alves was that in his acai berry'd prime he was a very scary striker with great TDD, I'd actually give him a good shot vs current Woodley, certainly comparable to current Wonderboy.

 

[chinarice]

Florian also says that GSP has never faced a grappler as good as Demian Maia or a striker as good as Wonderboy Thompson.

I agree with Ken Flo.

Do you?

lololololol GSP holds a win over Shields who has a win over Maia and Woodley but ok

Wonderboy is a great striker but GSP would have violated Wonderboy. There would be no controversial decision. It would be a shutout. Wonderboy would be on his back every single round.

Woodley can surpass GSP but that shit is nonsense. Shields is an amazing grappler and better than Maia in certain ways.

 

[QcChopper]

Woodley is only a year younger than GSP, no reason they can't fight if anyone thinks GSP is better.

It's not a good risk/reward at all, GSP doesn't need to beat Woodley to claim he is the most accomplished WW, Woodley needs to beat GSP BADLY to even give remote legitimacy to that claim.

Why take the chance and give him the opportunity at all since it does nothing for him?

Now fighting at 155 is a great legacy fight and if he loses, doesn't affect his status as a WW at all. That's good risk/reward.

 

[ReadWrite]

He added, he also hasn't faced a guy with an RNC like me, or elbows like mine, so he has to beat me to become the GOAT. Thank you Kenny for your new formula.

 

[MMAart]

I said most definitely that GSP was (always was) on serious multivitamins. You don't become one of the GOAT by fighting juicers on chicken and rice.

The point I was drawing with Alves was that in his acai berry'd prime he was a very scary striker with great TDD, I'd actually give him a good shot vs current Woodley, certainly comparable to current Wonderboy.

If both of them were on "supplements ", then those advantages cancel out each other, so there shouldn't be any extra praises.

Whether natural Alves can beat Thompson is debatable.

 

[JoshR86]

Thomspon would decision Condit and Diaz pretty soundly IMO. Hell, GSP himself heaped the highest level of praise on Wonderboy as a striker.

I believe the notion is that both Maia and Thompson were too 1 dimesional to use their craft effectively.

Who cares how good Maia's BJJ was, he has a pretty lame TD game and was easily neutralized before he ever got the fight to the ground.

Wonderboy was also horrible off his back (something strikers like Diaz and Condit were not) and wasn't able to utilize his superior striking effectively for fear of the TD.

GSP maybe didn't face the same level of striker but he did face equally dangerous strikers who were also BJJ black belts( not blue belts)

He didnt face the same level of grappling as Maia, but he did face high level, world champions in Penn and Shields who were far better than Maia in other facets as well. Shields was a superior wrestler and beat not only Maia but also T.Wood when they fought.

And Penn had a far far better striking arsenal than Maia.

 

[JoshR86]

what? jake shields beat Maia, and it was via grappling

im surprised kenny's saying this as a tri-star guy. I'm starting to wonder if GSP vs Tyron is happening and KenFlo is trying to get the ball rolling for hype

Nah i think there just UFC shills who are puahing a narrative to promote a current champion, and i actually have no issue wkth this.

I dont agree that he is, but they should push T.Wood as the best ever

 

[JackSchtotll]

It's just a hard fact.

 

[PROlogic]

I believe the notion is that both Maia and Thompson were too 1 dimesional to use their craft effectively.

Who cares how good Maia's BJJ was, he has a pretty lame TD game and was easily neutralized before he ever got the fight to the ground.

Wonderboy was also horrible off his back (something strikers like Diaz and Condit were not) and wasn't able to utilize his superior striking effectively for fear of the TD.

GSP maybe didn't face the same level of striker but he did face equally dangerous strikers who were also BJJ black belts( not blue belts)

He didnt face the same level of grappling as Maia, but he did face high level, world champions in Penn and Shields who were far better than Maia in other facets as well. Shields was a superior wrestler and beat not only Maia but also T.Wood when they fought.

And Penn had a far far better striking arsenal than Maia.

What's truly hilarious is that Shields won a pure stand up fight against Woodley

All this talk about Woodley being a great striker, yet even someone as rudimentary as Shields was able to disarm Woodley's right hand and render him ineffective simply via:

fienting/jabbing mix ups to keep Woodley offset(also to control distance vs Woodley)

Stiff arming to disrupt Woodley's right hand. Inside low kicks to offbalance Woodley from being able to run forward with right hands.

And via always keeping his lead shoulder high protecting his chin and staying inside of Woodley's right hand as a built in measure to deflect the right off his shoulder (stepping to his right away from the right naturally did this )

It takes the most basic of tactics to shut Woodley down and render him ineffective on the feet

Shields simply being around the Diaz brothers helped him tremendously

Its these "exotic" karate point fighters or Muay Thai fighters who don't really understand the basics of boxing who Woodley can simply bomb right hands against and catch


This is why Conor's leadhand game, fienting systems, and footwork would incapacitate Woodley and shut Woodley down

The difference between others and Conor is that Conor draws out responses to counter on his terms

Conor controls, limits your output, and draws out what he wants when he wants

Woodley is so hair trigger to just sit back and counter. Conor would easily draw out the right hand from Woodley when he wants with his fients/leadhand probes/leadhand control, then slip and counter Woodley's response with ease

Conor's leadhand probes+finets would keep Woodley continually off set, unable to time anything, controlled at range, and would distract Woodley for Conor to land his leads as well etc

Conor would drown Woodley alive

This is also why Nate Diaz would've been a tough natch up for Woodley. Because Nate understands the actual basics of boxing

Woodley himself knew Nate was a tougher match up for him then WB was

Its boxers who will easily shut down Woodley on the feet

Even someone as sloppy and uncordinated as Shields was able to shut down Woodley and outstrike him with simply sticking to the basics and utilising core fundamental boxing tactics

 

[Thepaintbucket]

It's going to be tough but he might just get it done, with or without GSP on his record. The funny thing is Woodley and GSP are almost the same age. Woodley is an old lion fighting the younger top contenders.

 

[ANIM4L]

You're right, Thompson barely survived that fight.

so much revisionist history

 

[JoshR86]

What's truly hilarious is that Shields won a pure stand up fight against Woodley

All this talk about Woodley being a great striker, yet even someone as rudimentary as Shields was able to disarm Woodley's right hand and render him ineffective simply via:

fienting/jabbing mix ups to keep Woodley offset(also to control distance vs Woodley)

Stiff arming to disrupt Woodley's right hand. Inside low kicks to offbalance Woodley from being able to run forward with right hands.

And via always keeping his lead shoulder high protecting his chin and staying inside of Woodley's right hand as a built in measure to deflect the right off his shoulder (stepping to his right away from the right naturally did this )

It takes the most basic of tactics to shut Woodley down and render him ineffective on the feet

Shields simply being around the Diaz brothers helped him tremendously

Its these "exotic" karate point fighters or Muay Thai fighters who don't really understand the basics of boxing who Woodley can simply bomb right hands against and catch


This is why Conor's leadhand game, fienting systems, and footwork would incapacitate Woodley and shut Woodley down

The difference between others and Conor is that Conor draws out responses to counter on his terms

Conor controls, limits your output, and draws out what he wants when he wants

Woodley is so hair trigger to just sit back and counter. Conor would easily draw out the right hand from Woodley when he wants with his fients/leadhand probes/leadhand control, then slip and counter Woodley's response with ease

Conor's leadhand probes+finets would keep Woodley continually off set, unable to time anything, controlled at range, and would distract Woodley for Conor to land his leads as well etc

Conor would drown Woodley alive

This is also why Nate Diaz would've been a tough natch up for Woodley. Because Nate understands the actual basics of boxing

Woodley himself knew Nate was a tougher match up for him then WB was

Its boxers who will easily shut down Woodley on the feet

Even someone as sloppy and uncordinated as Shields was able to shut down Woodley and outstrike him with simply sticking to the basics and utilising core fundamental boxing tactics

I dont disagree, but i feel like T.Woods wrestling would be too much for Conor, and T.Woods does have a very powerful top game.

His unavenged losses to shields and Rory will always make it hard for me to consider him the GOAT, his turtle on the fence style and explode out with his right hand has been figured out before, and i just don't see a different T.Wood.

I actually think Colby could win a decision, he sets a higher pace, and unlike T.Woods last 3 opponents, isn't at a huge disadvantage in the wrestling department.

If Colby can get the better of T.Wood on the feet, he'll be able to comfortably keep the fight there.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

He DID outgrapple Maia tho...

I would take a guess and say you actually have not watch the fight... Maia took the best positions, Maia took the only 2 takedowns in the fight, jake did have 2 reversals, where he stalled the shit out till both rounds ended, and won the fight by throwing more strikes, he did win the fight, he did not out grapple Maia.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Maia's BJJ is unbelievable but his wrestling is crap and his striking and timing isn't good enough to set up an easy TD.

His wrestling is crap? Yet he took down chael fitch shields story dhk laflare, he couldn’t take down twood Colby and usman, 3 elite wrestlers So td sucks? Won’t even go into the wrestling part cause you know wrestling is way more than just takedowns, and Demian has by far the best top control, may be in pair with khabib...

 

[PROlogic]

I dont disagree, but i feel like T.Woods wrestling would be too much for Conor, and T.Woods does have a very powerful top game.

His unavenged losses to shields and Rory will always make it hard for me to consider him the GOAT, his turtle on the fence style and explode out with his right hand has been figured out before, and i just don't see a different T.Wood.

I actually think Colby could win a decision, he sets a higher pace, and unlike T.Woods last 3 opponents, isn't at a huge disadvantage in the wrestling department.

If Colby can get the better of T.Wood on the feet, he'll be able to comfortably keep the fight there.

I'm simply talking about the stand up. But yes, If Woodley got top position against Conor that would be very bad for Conor.

However if you study Conor, Conor has developed some pretty revolutionary takedown defense for counter punching.

Conor will stiff arm and neck frame to control, push off, and create space. He can feel opponents out, gather their intention and either counter or cross face the neck or stiff arm and create space

I feel Woodley would never even have the opportunity to grab Conor or get on his hips.

If Woodley ever wants to have a chance against Conor he needs to be the one pushing the pace and shooting forward doubles etc

It boggles my mind how many people don't realize Conor is a terrible match up for Woodley

But then again that's better, because if Conor were to win, people would treat it as some revolutionary upset and that would make Conor's win even more incredible...even though Conor has always had the superior skill and style to expose Woodley

Woodley really has been lucky that WW only had specialists

It's strikers with fundamental boxing who expose Woodley

This is why Woodley himself said that Nate would be one of his toughest matchups too

This is also why Woodley is scared of Conor McGregor. Woodley knows his limitations. He's smart. I give him that