ken shamrock- how good is he on the ground/frank shamrock how good is he on the groun

[Bullitt68]

Sounds like Frank was just making excuses for not going to Abu Dhabi. It would have been a lot better for him to say that he just wasn't interested, or that he's a fighter and wants to focus on MMA, or whatever. But to say that his style is good when there are no rules (um, doesn't MMA have rules? btw, and I don't think there is any kind or organized tournament on the planet that doesn't have rules) and that when there are rules he'd lose, is just dumb.

I think he was just saying that MMA wasn't as confined.

 

[ooitzoo]

I don't even know what to say to this. You're comparing Ken's grappling to Leben's striking and you are still trying to claim that Ken got tooled by elite grapplers when that is just not true.

I'm done arguing because clearly nothing I say is going to penetrate.

I'm making the argument that Ken's grappling is bad but rather just average; similar to Leben's striking. I am sorry but i just don't think Ken is an elite grappler. His game was good 15 years ago but he failed to adapt.:icon_chee

 

[shamrockfan77]

i think frank is living off of old hype. he was good in the day, but Renzo tooled him on the ground.

bullshit renzo layed there did no damage while frank was kneeing the shit out of his side, watch the fight again. btw i dont even like frank shamrock at all, i liked ken back in the day thoe.

 

[TKDGrappler]

We all stand on the back of those who came before. It was a different world back then. Hell, Kimura mostly tried to smother Helio for a while. It was a different world back then, plain and simple. Give respect to pioneers.

 

[Ryo]

Kimura used kazure-kamishiho- gatame (applied from north south) and kesa-gatame, to smother Helio. With the gi on it was a legitamite move. He even choked him out with a triangle.

 

[PayPerView]

i am a frank fan but he would get schooled in ADCC.

 

[Kforcer]

Sounds like Frank was just making excuses for not going to Abu Dhabi. It would have been a lot better for him to say that he just wasn't interested, or that he's a fighter and wants to focus on MMA, or whatever. But to say that his style is good when there are no rules (um, doesn't MMA have rules? btw, and I don't think there is any kind or organized tournament on the planet that doesn't have rules) and that when there are rules he'd lose, is just dumb.

I think he's just saying that BJJ and shoot-wrestling are different animals, proficiency in which is reflected in slightly different competitions. If they weren't (different), Combat Wrestling and S.A.W. and things of that nature wouldn't exist.

 

[blanko]

I think he's just saying that BJJ and shoot-wrestling are different animals, proficiency in which is reflected in slightly different competitions. If they weren't (different), Combat Wrestling and S.A.W. and things of that nature wouldn't exist.

adcc is not bjj and non bjj artists have done well in adcc.

 

[Kforcer]

adcc is not bjj and non bjj artists have done well in adcc.

ADCC is largely based on a sport BJJ points system. Of course non-BJJ'ists have done well in ADCC; Mark Kerr, Sakurai and Kikuta being prime examples.

That's not my point.

My point is that Frank wasn't trying to down-play ADCC in my mind or make an excuse--he was just pointing out that Pancrase-style grappling emphasizes different things than tournaments like ADCC thus he doesn't see ADCC as something that would fit the style he practices or be a relevant test of his proficiency at that approach to grappling.

Just like a BJJ'ist wouldn't be downplaying judo, Combat Wrestling or Contenders or Pancrase catch wrestling if he said he wasn't interested in competing in it.

Anyway, I don't even like Frank. The way he was supposedly best-buddies with Cung Le, brought him into StrikeForce and then turned on him once he felt he had effectively manufactured him into a credible opponent is down-right....uhhh....manipulative or something. Machiavellian maybe?

 

[blanko]

not machiavellian.. pathetic and attention grabbing cus he knows that making noise is the only way he will stay relevant

 

[Kforcer]

not machiavellian.. pathetic and attention grabbing cus he knows that making noise is the only way he will stay relevant

Well, I think it may backfire on him. Cung Le is a beast. If he had better grappling, he could be the best takedown-to-leglock transition artist evah. As it is, he's got excellent takedowns and takedown defense. Shammy has neither.

 

[blanko]

you know what? Chung said something very interesting about frank, he said that while he had been a competive "wrestler" most of his life (highschool/college ect) frank was and is a "submission wrestler"and doesn't think that frank can take him down.