ken florian-standup-questionable boxing

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by devante, Apr 6, 2008.

  1. devante Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    satx
    i really find keny florian to be a true tech in regards to the theory and application of mma, where he has really impressed me is his improved wrestling; the biggest an most prolific jum has been his striking.


    he really has become an excellent all round striker in regards to his footwork, spacing, angles, def, counters, setups, entries, escapes; but his problem and it hasnt gotten any better since he has been in the ufc is his hands.

    for a guy w/such good standup his hands are really atrocious, not saying he can't use them to some extent eff; but in fights w/lauzon, thomas, robinson, karalexis and anyone else his hands are non factors. Im not saying he hasn't the ability to do some damage, im sure he trains them but his application of off and def in the cage is not good at all; luckily he has to some extent outclassed his opp tech and strategically, i see it as a big hole that can and will be taken adv of by guys like penn, diaz, even huerta (who is no craftsman).

    in two fights i have seen kenny get caught coming in w/short hooks and going out w/short hooks; an when he can't tie up for a clinch or get the plum for knees, he is basically a heavybag.

    alvin robinson wobbled him w/a short hook coming in and going out, lauzon did the same thing; in fact lauzon's hands landed everytime he threw, kenny's headmovement was limited at the best and his spacing angles had him right in line for hooks and chopping right hands

    i can't even remember him eff using his hands at any point against anyone; i feel if thomas wouldnt have hurt his knee, his boxing would have hurt florian at a later stage in the fight. As florian was having problems eff closing the dist or landing his big shots or putting them together when having to face din's footwork, quick hands and angles.

    i know some will say im being to hard; but if a guy kept getting caught in armbars, people would say he needs to dev his ground game, but kenny consistently is caught w/short hooks and has been unable to eff get off w/his hands at all in any mma fight i have seen. an while his footwork is good enough to keep guys from tying him up or shooting in it hasn't been good enough to get him away from anyone's hands.


    thoughts/opinions or am i being too hard
     
  2. 5acrossYOeye Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,286
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Washed dad living in the burbs
    i like kenny because he isn't afraid to improve.

    Devante..you know me man I'm always watching MMA fighters hands.

    Kenny has good kicks, good elbows, good knees but his hands haven't come around like the rest of his game has. I know he has a boxing coach because he thanked the guy 400 times in his post fight interview but I think thats where he needs to make the most improvement.

    I think his head movement and combination punching needs the most improvement.
     
  3. blanko Guest

    his stand up is based on muay thai that's why his punches aren't that good.
     
  4. devante Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    satx
    i know i just fig he would at some point shore that up, i mean he more or less got caught w/ the same shot in two fights almost a year apart; the setup, situation and reaction was the same.

    against robinson he comes out of a grappling exchange and tries to close in on alvin and gets caught w/a short hook coming in and out


    almost a year or more later he gets caught w/a short hook coming in and going out, after a grappling exchange.

    in the first situation he didn't def or counter the shots, he stepped back and out; a year later he does the same thing, its gotta be something he is aware of and REALLY drilling cus i dont think there is an excuse for showing no progression at all in that area.

    i mean he has a good all round game, but his hands are nonexistent and that is a huge area that can be taken adv of; especially agaisnt the better punchers tech (fisher/edgar) and the more active guys (huerta), his lack of off and def acumen will cause him problems w/huerta who has a ridiculous workrate and commitment to being in ur face and forcing exchanges/high paces.
     
  5. devante Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    satx
    huerta won't let him maintain the dist and slow the pace necessary for him to sharp shoot and step away
     
  6. blanko Guest

    or roger can eat alot of low/mid kicks from far away and elbows/knees up close. who knows?
     
  7. Rinksterk** Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    Messages:
    5,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Hades
    I agree. His punching sucks but I do like his low kicks. That's the only part of his stand up I care for. Huerta is more diverse and knows to throw with variation and he got low kicks too.
     
  8. devante Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    satx
    i see your point, i just noticed this gap in his game; an unfortunately he has not faced a guy who will press the issue in regards to pressuring him and moving their hands, huerta is not a tech by any means. But he is comfortable w/his hands and very willing, able to eff move his hands and come forward; robinson/lauzon wouldn't press the issue, they took short combos and when hit backed off, i dont think roger will do that.

    an i only mention this because its the one element of his game that is lacking, an one i think the right guy can take adv of; maybe it won't be, but i don't see how anyone doesn't notice how far behind his hands are.

    kenny is very disciplined and balanced; but he is such a liability off and def, i know roger can counter block def and use knees kicks. I can't say the same for kenny regarding his boxing, he has shown NO SKILL at all in that area.
     
  9. Rinksterk** Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    Messages:
    5,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Hades
    by the way, are they fighting? huerta and Florian? That would be a pretty good fight. I'd go for Huerta even though he's BJJ isn't Florian's level.
     
  10. blanko Guest

    don't think rogers muay thai is anywhere near kenny's. Roger looks good cus he sets a high pace and is exciting. Against a guy who has had wars against bigger foes (sherk/leben/ect) i don't think that roger can either ko kenny nor can he submit him. The only thing i can think of is for him to box kenny if kenny is willing to stay in boxing range with him (witch i doubt) cus i don't think that he can controll kenny on the ground.
     
  11. devante Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    satx
    i dont think it is, but i think roger is more balanced and capable in all aspects/ranges of striking; roger lacks the discipline and judiciousness, but at least he has show some skill in all aspects.

    Kenny has shown zero in boxing; i think kenny is too good and seasoned for huerta, but i won't ignore a big hole that hasn't been exploited not so much cus of florian. But because his opp lack the mindset and skill to do so.

    kenny is better in all areas except boxing/wrestling; muay thai, subs, groundwork its no contest. I still feel the workrate and aggression will affect kenny spacing, timing and ability to pick shots; roger won't let him stick and move, he will make him fight in grappling and striking.
     
  12. blanko Guest

    yea but striking does not automatically mean he is in boxing range. As for grappling.. Yea he could take kenny down but he isn't gonna keep and maintain dominant positon on kenny. Also, i don't see him passing kenny's guard if anything i see him getting swept/submittined from kenny's guard.
     
  13. Rinksterk** Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    Messages:
    5,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Hades
    Definitely agree with this part. It doesn't matter where the fight is, Huerta makes it a fight. I thought Guida was going to outwrestle and out punch him but Huerta doesn't give an inch in any domain. People underestimate workrate and aggression. That's why Wanderlei Silva and Chute Boxe were so successful while it lasted. Same why Calzaghe is successful despite being technically inferior.
     
  14. jdm_boy Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    7,360
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Kenflo is a lanky b*stard but in a good way. Lauzon couldn't keep his top position because Florian is one long limbed dude.... As much as I hate his nickname, and his Ben Stiller face, his fights ARE exciting to watch, and he DOES finish fights.
     
  15. blanko Guest

    well agression is one of the reasons why chute boxe was so successful.. A more important reason is that they were well rounded fighters with great bjj that allowed them to swing freely on their feet.
     
  16. Rinksterk** Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    Messages:
    5,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Hades
    LMAO
     
  17. devante Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    satx
    thank u people forget this, someone who is not fearful or hesitant will give u issues in grappling or striking, because there is no area where u can rest or pick ur spots due to the fact the person wont get off of u; that can expose less than perfect tech, a suspect chin, heart or overall durability or conditioning.

    this is huerta's specialty, even if u outclass him in an area he will make u fight for everything, an that puts alot of mental and physical pressure on people who aren't used to an opp who doesn't step back or slow down; this is why diego sanchez is able to takedown much better wrestlers and go move for move w/better grapplers. activity aggression and desire.

    as far as standing leben, martin, silva, baroni, rua get by on ok skills; but intense workrate, pressure and aggression
     
  18. TsukinoKage Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    1,771
    Likes Received:
    0
    I kind of take issue with making a whole topic about a guy who obviously doesn't have the best hands. He was a ground specialist with a BJJ blackbelt, and he's recently focused on Muay Thai. Is it any damn mystery why he doesn't have the crispest boxing? He has some of the better (if not best) roundhouses in the UFC LW division. If he had focused on boxing instead, you'd probably be making a topic about how he's lacking the kicking department.

    How about this. Masato should work on his kicking more, and Buakaw should do more boxing...
     
  19. devante Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    satx
    i just thought it was a intelligent point to acknowledge a hole in his game, i commend him for rounding out his skills, an excelling in a particular aspect. But its mma and he needs to address them all b4 he gets exploited; its like saying cro cop was a standup guy and worked on his takedown/gnp, but didn't work on his actual ground skills. To be eff, truly, he needs to develop all tools; an u know what its not that he is poor at it, its that he has shown NO competence w/it offensively or defensively and getting caught w/the same shot in almost the exact same instance in two fights w/two diff guys w/more than a year in between is a sign to me that there might need to be some SERIOUS work put in.

    if a guy had good hands but no eff w/his kicks or knees at all, i would have to comment on his inabilty to intelligently def/attack in that area; it is a prob and it needs to be addressed for said fighter to stay on top.
     
  20. devante Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    satx
    i just thought it was a intelligent point to acknowledge a hole in his game, i commend him for rounding out his skills, an excelling in a particular aspect. But its mma and he needs to address them all b4 he gets exploited; its like saying cro cop was a standup guy and worked on his takedown/gnp, but didn't work on his actual ground skills. To be eff, truly, he needs to develop all tools; an u know what its not that he is poor at it, its that he has shown NO competence w/it offensively or defensively and getting caught w/the same shot in almost the exact same instance in two fights w/two diff guys w/more than a year in between is a sign to me that there might need to be some SERIOUS work put in.

    if a guy had good hands but no eff w/his kicks or knees at all, i would have to comment on his inabilty to intelligently def/attack in that area; it is a prob and it needs to be addressed for said fighter to stay on top.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.