Keenan's Father Speaks

Keenan's mom: "You know, if it is the same Lloyd E. Irving Jr., as he has yet to confirm that it isn't, an analogy of this recent website maneuver would be a guy who "attempted" to a shoot person maliciously, but missed due to a faulty trigger finger, went free due to the fact his body would not do what his mind intended it to, and then went on to make a website condemning guns to distract people from reading about it. I am hoping beyond hope that this is not the same person...geeezus."
 
anaconda said:
Wow, where did he say this?

I do think Keenan will stay for a while yet. It will be like a moment of pride, that he stuck by his coach. It happens a lot (possibly too often).

But I think eventually he will end up leaving.
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It was on the Fightworks Podcast. I think its still available to listen to. The podcast was months ago though.
 
GracieMMABarra said:
He has his lifestyle paid for. He has no rent. Food seems covered. Airfare covered. Rides. So on.

No other gym is going to do what he has now (That I know of). Not Atos. Not Mendes. Not Cobrinha.

Maybe his family will support him though but it's harder than just leave.
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So...He had a room to live in a house with a bunch of other dudes, food, training, and airfare.

Plenty of gyms have housing for fighters. No one will make him pay for training. The big one will be airfare to the major competitions - but if he moves to CA that will cut down the expenses drastically.

Andre and the Mendes bros and Marcelo and Cobrinha are all doing exceptionally well for themselves. There is no reason they wouldn't want to bring him into their gym and sponsor him for the next few years until he develops as a top level black belt and supports himself.

To think Lloyd is the only one that can do that is crazy.
 
Gestalt.

The sum is different than the parts.

You can't just isolate components of a situation and treat them like they don't interact with each other.
 
Difeco said:
-none of them, he's over 18...should know what to do by himself. This is my personal opinion, as the contrary is his father's.
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Contrary to his father's opinion? Did you miss this part?

I've been inundated with e-mails and calls about Keenan and whether he is going to stay or leave the LI team. Well, that's not up to me. Keenan is 20 going on 21 --and he's smart, independent, talented, and fully supported by his mother and I.
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That's the first paragraph. Seems pretty clear that all the father is doing is expressing his opinion on the situation, as many people have asked for it, and nothing more.

Yes, he would prefer that his son find an alternate team to affiliate himself with, and I don't think that it's unreasonable. Lloyd Irvin may be a great coach, but it's not like he's the only good coach in the world, or even the best coach. There are many coaches, teams and schools out there that can provide high-end instruction and a quality, championship-level training environment.

The only thing opposite is your respective opinions on whether Keenan should stay.
 
Difeco said:
OK genius...this is just some poor racionalization that people created to feel good about training at 15 different gyms.
I don't think changing gyms it's a problem, when you don't FUCK your coach.
If Keenan leaves LI, he's been UNGRATEFUL..and that, mr. 'knowitall', is what creonte means.

To the other guy talking about brazilians and stuff...yeah, I think that saying 'it's ok to leave someone who raised you as a grappler and made you famous' is pretty serious.
Again, this is not about country, this is about being a FAIR person.
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then going by what you are saying, TLI has a fucking laundry list of creontes (quite a few from alliance).

Also, if you are giving this as a definition of creontes and you are bitching about creontes, you might want to take Leo Vieira off your fucking signature
 
anaconda said:
So...He had a room to live in a house with a bunch of other dudes, food, training, and airfare.

Plenty of gyms have housing for fighters. No one will make him pay for training. The big one will be airfare to the major competitions - but if he moves to CA that will cut down the expenses drastically.

Andre and the Mendes bros and Marcelo and Cobrinha are all doing exceptionally well for themselves. There is no reason they wouldn't want to bring him into their gym and sponsor him for the next few years until he develops as a top level black belt and supports himself.

To think Lloyd is the only one that can do that is crazy.
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Yeah if he wanted to leave, I'm sure he could arrange something with those guys.

For some reason lately people have been acting like Lloyd's gym is the only place for up and comers to get high level training. That is not so.
 
anaconda said:
Keenan's mom: "You know, if it is the same Lloyd E. Irving Jr., as he has yet to confirm that it isn't, an analogy of this recent website maneuver would be a guy who "attempted" to a shoot person maliciously, but missed due to a faulty trigger finger, went free due to the fact his body would not do what his mind intended it to, and then went on to make a website condemning guns to distract people from reading about it. I am hoping beyond hope that this is not the same person...geeezus."
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lol, this is the guy your son calls "Master"
 
anaconda said:
Keenan's mom: "You know, if it is the same Lloyd E. Irving Jr., as he has yet to confirm that it isn't, an analogy of this recent website maneuver would be a guy who "attempted" to a shoot person maliciously, but missed due to a faulty trigger finger, went free due to the fact his body would not do what his mind intended it to, and then went on to make a website condemning guns to distract people from reading about it. I am hoping beyond hope that this is not the same person...geeezus."
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I love her.

That is all.
 
Nomad Nemesis said:
then going by what you are saying, TLI has a fucking laundry list of creontes (quite a few from alliance).

Also, if you are giving this as a definition of creontes and you are bitching about creontes, you might want to take Leo Vieira off your fucking signature
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why so mad?

who has Leo FUCKED in his past Brasa membership? check your facts...
 
This is a comment someone left on Tom's facebook post that I think some people here could benefit from reading.

I recently attended a Rape Aggression Defense (RAD) seminar, during which instructors showed a video interview with college-age men who described how they got women who came to their parties drunk--tag teaming to make sure the women had a lot to drink--and then took them to a designated room to have sex. They described how the women were pretty much out of it and didn't resist, and how since they didn't say no, it was O.K. It was blatant, premeditative rape, but these guys didn't see anything wrong with their actions. You're right, Tom, we've got to COACH our young men better.
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Hey DeFico how much does it cost in U.S dollars to train in bjj per month for you? I want to know straight from source.
 
anaconda said:
Andre and the Mendes bros and Marcelo and Cobrinha are all doing exceptionally well for themselves. There is no reason they wouldn't want to bring him into their gym and sponsor him for the next few years until he develops as a top level black belt and supports himself.

To think Lloyd is the only one that can do that is crazy.
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There's a big difference between can doing it and doing it. I don't remember ever hearing Andre and Marcelo taking care of entire lifestyles. I do know a lot of them are parent supported. Cobrinha and Mendes no clue.

But yes, those gyms are great options.
 
GracieMMABarra said:
There's a big difference between can doing it and doing it. I don't remember ever hearing Andre and Marcelo taking care of entire lifestyles. I do know a lot of them are parent supported. Cobrinha and Mendes no clue.

But yes, those gyms are great options.
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I remember entering a tournament in Brazil where a kid named Matheus won the whole thing...he's a purple now and more of a beast than he was before.
I'm pretty sure that Marcelo helped him and payed for his things in NYC.
 
Difeco said:
I remember entering a tournament in Brazil where a kid named Matheus won the whole thing...he's a purple now and more of a beast than he was before.
I'm pretty sure that Marcelo helped him and payed for his things in NYC.
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I know him but I don't know his full story.
 
bubkusjones said:
Wasn't he only acquitted because he was so drunk he couldn't get "it" up, and thus, didn't technically participate? Kind of a BS technicality, if you ask me (sounds to me like if "Little Lloyd" was working he would've been all up in it), but I'm not a lawyer or a judge or a juror and I don't have access to all the information so, my opinion isn't worth shit.
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All the articles said is that there was drinking going on. Lloyd failed to get an erection but it said nothing about whether or not he was drunk.

Let's also keep in mind that while he testified that he wanted to participate at the time and was actively trying to get an erection, he also testified that he believed it to be a consentual encounter at the time. Had he gotten an erection and penetrated her, he would have been convicted regardless.

For the head instructor to go through that, and then, years later, two of his students end up raping a third? That's one big ass black stain on the academy. Even if there is no actual link between them, people will inevitably form their own.
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The NYE incident was enough to put a stain on the academy. The revelation of the 1990 incident on top of it is enough to break it entirely.

And then there's Irvin's handling of the situation, so far. Not exactly the most reassuring actions, in my opinion. Has there been any statement from Lloyd?
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So far, only the statement he made in support of the NYE victim.

What I'd like to know, is how much people knew about LI's legal issue before this happened. If this is a new revelation for many people, I think it's a perfectly good reason to leave.

In the end, if Keenan wishes to leave because of this, no one has the right to comment on it. That type of thing isn't going to go away quickly. People shouldn't be expected to train in facilities, or under instructors, they are not comfortable with. Especially if they are high-level athletes.
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What he disclosed about his past isn't clear. If it's a revelation for them, then it's certainly an understandable reason to change gyms.

That said, he wasn't convicted. Most people have things in their past they regret and they don't readily present to people. It's not that they're trying to hide it, they've just moved on. Ask Kobe or Roethlisberger.
 
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