Keenan's Father Speaks

I'm emailing Keenan now.

"Keenan, I realize you have many options but if you join our school, you have two black belts and two brown belts to roll with everyday. Our black belts are in their late thirties but do well at Naga and Grapplers quest. Our tuition is only $125 per month but you can mop for a discount on your tuition. Look forward to hearing back from you".

I think we got him locked up. Atos and Mendes Bros are out of luck!
 
Jagcorps_esq said:
If Keenan left to go to another gym because he felt he could get further with them, sure. If he left just because he liked the West Coast, fine.

You have to do more than just say 'If he leave, no matter what, it's crap because Lloyd made him."

Only a completely unreasonable person would claim that there are NO circumstances under which a person could leave. If you want to be that unreasonable person, cool. Just understand that I think that sort of "zero tolerance" policy is absolute idiotic and devoid of even the slightest thought.

I'm sorry, but finding out about prior rape charges in the wake of another rape in your school and your employer engaging in shitty, cover your ass marketing....that counts as a good reason to get my name off their list.
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So...Imagine only the Lloyd situation existed (the recent rape don't exist in this scenario).
You think that Keenan would leave? You think that posts would be created in F12?
If your answer is negative..yes, I still think it's crap.

and thanks for not doing the "brazilian-creonte" shit
 
Difeco said:
So...Imagine only the Lloyd situation existed (the recent rape don't exist in this scenario).
You think that Keenan would leave? You think that posts would be created in F12?
If your answer is negative..yes, I still think it's crap.

and thanks for not doing the "brazilian-creonte" shit
Click to expand...

But, both DID happen.

HOW ARE YOU NOT GETTING THIS?!
 
" What I've heard and experienced recently and over the last month or so has convinced me that there are far, far better situations and people to be involved with"

By far the most significant part of his post. And how would Tom know anything about Lloyd or the gym unless Keenan told him about it? So this leads me to insinuate Keenan hasn't been that happy there due to some of the stuff he's seen.

Personally I think Keenan's best fit would be Andre, if he did leave. Big, athletic, inverts, etc, and in San Diego and close to the Mendes bros. Best of both worlds. I still am not convinced he's leaving though now I doubt he will stay there long term.
 
Yes, after Lloyd Irvin selflessly poured so much into Keenan ... with no expectation of a return, and having received no benefits from it ... how could Keenan not recognize that he is an indentured servant who must pay back the debt forever.

It's not like he's a coach in a fringe sport who is always hustling to build his reputation on the backs of his students or anything. Lloyd would never use anybody, and nobody should ever use Lloyd.
 
I'm tired of this whole team nonsense. Martial artists who are always looking to improve shouldn't be tied down. The whole stick with the team you started with to the death is gang mentality. Practioners should represent themselves first and foremost.
 
Tom doesnt want Keenan associated with the team or the drama surrounding it. Doesnt matter if its LI's fault or not. Tom is being a responsible parent. I think most of us would want the same thing for our own kids in this situation.
 
Difeco said:
So...Imagine only the Lloyd situation existed (the recent rape don't exist in this scenario).
You think that Keenan would leave? You think that posts would be created in F12?
If your answer is negative..yes, I still think it's crap.

and thanks for not doing the "brazilian-creonte" shit
Click to expand...

It is brazilian creonte shit. This pathetic clinging to loyalty beyond reason is pretty strictly a Brazilian addition to our American culture. We have loyalty here too, but it's got some wiggle room.

That and your straw man argument is stupid. Yes, if ONLY the prior rape had come up, there would be less reason for Keenen to leave. I wouldn't say that there would be no reason, but I would understand people thinking it was a betrayal then.

But the world you're making up here doesn't exist, so your hypothetical is pointless. The world we live in has the current rape charges, combined with the prior rape charges, and then all of the sleezy things Lloyd is doing now to cover up.
 
KarateFist said:
lol what does that mean? Lloyd was acquitted, as in no crime occurred. And even if he was guilty and did time, does that mean nobody should ever have anything to do with people who have a criminal conviction? Lloyd made Keenan, bailing now for no reason is bullshit
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Wasn't he only acquitted because he was so drunk he couldn't get "it" up, and thus, didn't technically participate? Kind of a BS technicality, if you ask me (sounds to me like if "Little Lloyd" was working he would've been all up in it), but I'm not a lawyer or a judge or a juror and I don't have access to all the information so, my opinion isn't worth shit.


For the head instructor to go through that, and then, years later, two of his students end up raping a third? That's one big ass black stain on the academy. Even if there is no actual link between them, people will inevitably form their own.

And then there's Irvin's handling of the situation, so far. Not exactly the most reassuring actions, in my opinion. Has there been any statement from Lloyd?

What I'd like to know, is how much people knew about LI's legal issue before this happened. If this is a new revelation for many people, I think it's a perfectly good reason to leave.

In the end, if Keenan wishes to leave because of this, no one has the right to comment on it. That type of thing isn't going to go away quickly. People shouldn't be expected to train in facilities, or under instructors, they are not comfortable with. Especially if they are high-level athletes.
 
Difeco.
His dad wants him to find another team.
Who should he listen to?
Creonte his dad or his current coach?
 
Also keep in mind guys, Keenan says the guys in the house are his only friends in the world and consider them to be life long friends. Its not going to be an easy decision for him to leave.
 
Zankou said:
Yes, after Lloyd Irvin selflessly poured so much into Keenan ... with no expectation of a return, and having received no benefits from it ... how could Keenan not recognize that he is an indentured servant who must pay back the debt forever.

It's not like he's a coach in a fringe sport who is always hustling to build his reputation on the backs of his students or anything. Lloyd would never use anybody, and nobody should ever use Lloyd.
Click to expand...

The funny thing is, I don't remember nearly as much creonte talk when Ryan or Mike left. Fowler left incredibly quietly.

I guess that's a testament to the Lloyd marketing machine and how much he improved his image - which Keenan was a HUGE part of - that people find out about a sordid past and scummy practices and would still call Keenan a creonte.
 
lechien said:
Difeco.
His dad wants him to find another team.
Who should he listen to?
Creonte his dad or his current coach?
Click to expand...

-none of them, he's over 18...should know what to do by himself. This is my personal opinion, as the contrary is his father's.

-And Jagcorps_esq, my argument is not hypothetical it's just a way of separating things so people can see that if Lloyd has ZERO fault in the latest rape situation Keenan's opinion shouldn't be influenced by it.

and yeah, you brought the country shit...I've known plenty of americans who understand this kind of "loyalty" so I'm not gonna do the same that you just did.
Enough for me.
 
platfox said:
Also keep in mind guys, Keenan says the guys in the house are his only friends in the world and consider them to be life long friends. Its not going to be an easy decision for him to leave.
Click to expand...

Wow, where did he say this?

I do think Keenan will stay for a while yet. It will be like a moment of pride, that he stuck by his coach. It happens a lot (possibly too often).

But I think eventually he will end up leaving.
 
Difeco said:
-none of them, he's over 18...should know what to do by himself. This is my personal opinion, as the contrary is his father's.

-And Jagcorps_esq, my argument is not hypothetical it's just a way of separating things so people can see that if Lloyd has ZERO fault in the latest rape situation Keenan's opinion should be influenced by it.

and yeah, you brought the country shit...I've known plenty of americans who understand this kind of "loyalty" so I'm not gonna do the same that you just did.
Enough for me.
Click to expand...

Yes, your argument is hypothetical. Separating things out, artificially, doesn't make sense in this case. We know ALL of these things at the same time right now.

One offense might be forgiven, but with the accumulation of issues, that makes the question different.
 
He has his lifestyle paid for. He has no rent. Food seems covered. Airfare covered. Rides. So on.

No other gym is going to do what he has now (That I know of). Not Atos. Not Mendes. Not Cobrinha.

Maybe his family will support him though but it's harder than just leave.
 
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