Kazushi Sakuraba is one of the GOATS

[bigwaverider]

he is so brave

 

[Talon81]

I do believe he was the #1 pound for pound fighter at one point in his career

And that's currently what Jones/Khabib are after

Saying it's "what they're after" suggests they aren't/haven't been, which is misleading.
Not every fighter that has been p4p#1 at some point is a GOAT.
Jones and Khabib have been at the top for years without losing, hence the GOAT talk. Sakuraba has not done that. Legend, yes, but nowhere near the accomplishments of Fedor, Jones, GSP, Silva, Khabib, Cormier, Aldo, MM.
He deserves credit for fighting above his weight, but it doesn't erase his losses or magically add GOATworthy wins.

 

[VinceArch]

Legend, pioneer, fearless.

GOATS don't have 17 losses though.

 

[gono btw]

Ehh. Important but in the grand scheme of things and some iconic fights and stuff but... very quickly was surpassed.

meh. How can you be surpassed if you´re an OW fighter?
He was part of a transitional era, that´s the point.

Even in Pride (w/ kicking downed opponents) he also had a mean ankle-pick, and was also really good at "dodging" around on the ground after a failed takedown attempt and *not* getting kicked/kneed. And haha, his gnp was pretty weak, but he was aggressive and exciting with it. I miss him/his style.

hmm... yeah, he had no real interest in GNP...

Saying it's "what they're after" suggests they aren't/haven't been, which is misleading.
Not every fighter that has been p4p#1 at some point is a GOAT.
Jones and Khabib have been at the top for years without losing, hence the GOAT talk. Sakuraba has not done that. Legend, yes, but nowhere near the accomplishments of Fedor, Jones, GSP, Silva, Khabib, Cormier, Aldo, MM

Irrelevant comparison.
SAKU was an OW fighter, a natural WW who started his career as a FW but had to bulk up because...well... things were like that, only OW Tournaments, & even Bushido in Pride had a difficult start...

In modern MMA [>1997], the undersized fighter was not supposed to be that competitive.
There´s a reason why most of the dudes you listed were/are very careful b4 talkin´about goin´up...

 

[gono btw]

Legend, pioneer, fearless.

GOATS don't have 17 losses though.

not a pioneer, was already a modern fighter who belonged to that essential transitional era [1997-2000]

The W/L criterion is a mediocre, short-sighted one, especially @ OW.

 

[Talon81]

Irrelevant comparison.
SAKU was an OW fighter, a natural WW who started his career as a FW but had to bulk up because...well... things were like that, only OW Tournaments, & even Bushido in Pride had a difficult start...

In modern MMA [>1997], the undersized fighter was not supposed to be that competitive.
There´s a reason why most of the dudes you listed were/are very careful b4 talkin´about goin´up...

So we are supposed to assume he would have won those fights if he was the same weight as his opponent? GOAT lists don't work by changing 17 losses into "he would have won if's"

If life choices impact your standings, we should consider what Brock would have accomplished if he had dedicated himself to MMA instead of professional wrestling. Maybe he's the GOAT.

Saku competing the way he did helps make him a legend, but it would only contribute to him being a GOAT if they were wins. it doesn't reverse losses

 

[Summoning]

Yes, Saku is up there with Fedor, GSP, Khabib and Mousasi.

 

[VinceArch]

not a pioneer, was already a modern fighter who belonged to that essential transitional era [1997-2000]

The W/L criterion is a mediocre, short-sighted one, especially @ OW.

Perhaps not a pioneer in the sense like the Gracies but he still is one. He's even under the 'pioneer' wing in the new UFC HOF.

 

[gono btw]

So we are supposed to assume he would have won those fights if he was the same weight as his opponent? GOAT lists don't work by changing 17 losses into "he would have won if's"

If life choices impact your standings, we should consider what Brock would have accomplished if he had dedicated himself to MMA instead of professional wrestling. Maybe he's the GOAT.

Saku competing the way he did helps make him a legend, but it would only contribute to him being a GOAT if they were wins. it doesn't reverse losses

hmm..nah. You´re only supposed to watch the fights, assess them accordin´to the performance, instead of readin´wiki left & right.

@ OpenWeight, SAKU G.´s legacy is:

> Beatin´ LHWs like Vitor Gracie, Ebenezer Braga, Tiger, Randleman, Rampage
> Draw vs LHWs like Goes & Mezger
> Bein´competitive against HWs like Igor (followin´a 90mns battle vs Hoyce) or Crocop
> Bein´competitive against LHWs like Lil Nog (was injured in that fight & still dominated him during the 1st 2 Rds b4 gassin´)
> Beatin´HW like Conan

@ OW [above MW], SAKU is 8-1-7.

 

[Rampage_Jackson]

top 1 all time IMO

 

[DarthChen731]

meh. How can you be surpassed if you´re an OW fighter?
He was part of a transitional era, that´s the point.

I guess, but that's like saying someone from the first 20 years of baseball is the GOAT... like everything is so different it's practically a different sport.

 

[gono btw]

Perhaps not a pioneer in the sense like the Gracies but he still is one. He's even under the 'pioneer' wing in the new UFC HOF.

Pure PR move.

SAKU G. had only 9 NHB/MMA fights in the 1990s (10 if you count the Rooze one).
The real pioneers like Ken or Funaki or Mezger had more than 30 [30/ 49 /33]

I guess, but that's like saying someone from the first 20 years of baseball is the GOAT... like everything is so different it's practically a different sport.

hmm... nah.. See above.

 

[ferrisjso]

I think his era is underrated(people pretend RINGS and Pancrase didn't exist)and I still think he's overrated by extension of the Gracies being the most overrated athletes in the history of sports. Anyone else elite from that era would have gotten his title as the "Gracie killer". Borderline top 10 guy from that era at best. Pride was the fourth best MMA promotion during Sakuraba's prime(they became big after acquiring RINGS roster in 02) and he lost to Vovchanchyn in the GP.

 

[Sweater of AV]

He is the GOAT.

 

[gono btw]

I think his era is underrated(people pretend RINGS and Pancrase didn't exist)and I still think he's overrated by extension of the Gracies being the most overrated athletes in the history of sports. Anyone else elite from that era would have gotten his title as the "Gracie killer". Borderline top 10 guy from that era at best. Pride was the fourth best MMA promotion during Sakuraba's prime(they became big after acquiring RINGS roster in 02) and he lost to Vovchanchyn in the GP.

hmmm... contradiction there... Tamura, an other ATG, from...Rings... couldnt sub Henzo, for instance...

Meanwhile, most of the OGs who competed in those 2 KoK Tournaments ended up signin´ with Pride by the end of 2000.
Even Yvel, who became Rings´champ, opted out after his win over Tamura, & went to Pride.
Now, those KoK Tournaments were indeed game-changers in terms of purses [223,000 USD for Hendo].

Not sure if serious about that 4th best Org. tho...

 

[old school 2]

Absolutely .

 

[Freddy Fisticuffs]

Sakuraba is the undisputed peoples champ

 

[TheNinja]

He’s a legend, not a goat though.

My thoughts as well. There is a difference between the 2. He is definitely one of the greatest MMA personalities, legends, and people showing courage, heart, determination, and skill. But he's not a GOAT as far as elite wins and skills. And I'm a huge fan!

 

[Talon81]

hmm..nah. You´re only supposed to watch the fights, assess them accordin´to the performance, instead of readin´wiki left & right.

@ OpenWeight, SAKU G.´s legacy is:

> Beatin´ LHWs like Vitor Gracie, Ebenezer Braga, Tiger, Randleman, Rampage
> Draw vs LHWs like Goes & Mezger
> Bein´competitive against HWs like Igor (followin´a 90mns battle vs Hoyce) or Crocop
> Bein´competitive against LHWs like Lil Nog (was injured in that fight & still dominated him during the 1st 2 Rds b4 gassin´)
> Beatin´HW like Conan

@ OW [above MW], SAKU is 8-1-7.

I've never read his wiki, but watched most of his fights back around 2002 when I got ahold of a bunch of PRIDE VHS's. He was great, no doubt, but I can't award "weight disadvantage points" enough to compensate for a lot of losses and most of his renowned wins vs the fading (and no bigger than him in general) Gracies, when considering the ridiculous dominant streaks of guys like Fedor, Jones, Silva, GSP, MM, Aldo, Khabib. Even giving him some "weight disadvantage points", I see him around 20th p4p of all time

 

[TheNinja]

Perhaps not a pioneer in the sense like the Gracies but he still is one. He's even under the 'pioneer' wing in the new UFC HOF.

Agreed. Pioneer in the sense that, while MMA had started to become more mainstream, there still weren't a lot of guys with such a well rounded skillset who would fight out of his weightclass. You still had many specialists during his time. So I definitely consider him a pioneer of the sport.