June 26th ESPN Lomachenko vs Nakatani Top Rank ESPN

maybe because he did it once for every 5 times he got punched low? and sure, i would've had no problem with the ref calling him out on that.

but let's not pretend it's the same thing. when in close quarters and one guy ducks really low, the other leaning on him is something that actually does happen often in boxing. all night nut punching doesn't.
It is the same thing. If 1 fighter uses an illegal move or tactic to gain an advantage that the ref doesn't catch. I have no problem with the other fighter making his own justice or even one upping them.
 
oh and, i'm watching the fight again right now and lomachenko gets warned for holding and pulling in the 3rd lol.

that's like 10 nut shots into the fight, not a peep out of the ref about it.
So you are saying Loma was holding and pulling so bad he was warned by the 3rd...got it.

Solido is a dirty veteran im sure he sold it and did it to where the ref couldn't see a lot of it. That seems plausible over the conspiracy for Loma to lose such a star launching fight.
You guys get that what the ref can see is nothing like 20 cameras broadcasted to you at every angle with instant replay and DVR. On the convince of your couch and large screen.
 
It is the same thing. If 1 fighter uses an illegal move or tactic to gain an advantage that the ref doesn't catch. I have no problem with the other fighter making his own justice or even one upping them.
except the ref did catch it for one fighter, and not at all for the other. and leaning on someone when they throw an overhead right at you and push their head into your gut is not the same as punching someone in the crotch.

So you are saying Loma was holding and pulling so bad he was warned by the 3rd...got it.
{<huh}

salido punched lomachenko low 10 times by then, no warning. lomachenko leaned on him twice, was warned the second time.

if you want to argue in bad faith, you can do it with someone else. this is getting ridiculous.

Solido is a dirty veteran im sure he sold it and did it to where the ref couldn't see a lot of it. That seems plausible over the conspiracy for Loma to lose such a star launching fight.
You guys get that what the ref can see is nothing like 20 cameras broadcasted to you at every angle with instant replay and DVR. On the convince of your couch and large screen.
have you seen the fight? i'm not being funny here. it's on youtube, go watch it.

salido openly punched him low all night. he wasn't being crafty about it, he just went for it every second combo.

i'm not going to argue with someone who rejects visual evidence, for fuck's sake.
 
If anything the Loma-Salido fight shows the sheer importance of the way a given referee interprets the rules. The same people who don’t mind Cole’s lenience regarding Salido’s dirty tactics against Lomachenko can also agree wholeheartedly with the way Cortez broke every single clinch initiated by Hatton against Mayweather. They can also find Loma’s holding dirty and Floyd’s left elbow legit. The referee is always right, I guess.
right, and hatton (or his fans) had every right to complain about cortez being god awful that night. but no one sane ever really claimed that ricky lost because of cortez, that fight wasn't close at all. even hatton acknowledged he got outclassed in that one.

the reason we're having this heated debate here is because lomachenko's detractors use the salido fight as a means for heavy criticism, while refusing to concede it was close as hell, or that one guy was blatantly cheating all night.

it's like saying hagler sucks because he couldn't even beat a smaller man in SRL. it's technically true, but it's intentionally ignoring a lot of factors in order to demean a great fighter.
 
right, and hatton (or his fans) had every right to complain about cortez being god awful that night. but no one sane ever really claimed that ricky lost because of cortez, that fight wasn't close at all. even hatton acknowledged he got outclassed in that one.

the reason we're having this heated debate here is because lomachenko's detractors use the salido fight as a means for heavy criticism, while refusing to concede it was close as hell, or that one guy was blatantly cheating all night.

it's like saying hagler sucks because he couldn't even beat a smaller man in SRL. it's technically true, but it's intentionally ignoring a lot of factors in order to demean a great fighter.

Amen to that. This is a case of double standards. As it was said before it happens quite often in Lomachenko-related discussions.
 
If anything the Loma-Salido fight shows the sheer importance of the way a given referee interprets the rules. The same people who don’t mind Cole’s lenience regarding Salido’s dirty tactics against Lomachenko can also agree wholeheartedly with the way Cortez broke every single clinch initiated by Hatton against Mayweather. They can also find Loma’s holding dirty and Floyd’s left elbow legit. The referee is always right, I guess.

Are you talking about our lord and saviour Mr Cortez?

I especially enjoyed his refereeing in the Mayweather vs Ortiz match. Headbutt, calls for time, doing good so far, takes a point if i remember correctly, well done well done, then Ortiz says sorry and Mayweather does his best rendition of "This is SPARTA!" and Cortez stands there like he just caught his partner cheating, cold to the bone.
 
Nothing is ever "equal." I dont mind retaliation or getting dirtier on a fighter if the ref isn't calling the initial b.s. I guess
Salido's tactics had a far greater impact on the result. Loma's tactics were negligible. Loma fucked up he should have gone much dirtier to cancel out Salido's dirty tactics.
 
except the ref did catch it for one fighter, and not at all for the other. and leaning on someone when they throw an overhead right at you and push their head into your gut is not the same as punching someone in the crotch.


{<huh}

salido punched lomachenko low 10 times by then, no warning. lomachenko leaned on him twice, was warned the second time.

if you want to argue in bad faith, you can do it with someone else. this is getting ridiculous.


have you seen the fight? i'm not being funny here. it's on youtube, go watch it.

salido openly punched him low all night. he wasn't being crafty about it, he just went for it every second combo.

i'm not going to argue with someone who rejects visual evidence, for fuck's sake.
Its only an argument because you aren't reading and you keep saying the same shit. Loma loss. Move on.
I have seen the fight but unfortunately I dont exaggerate it and make up conspiracies about it. You are still flat ignoring and not understanding how your comfy broadcast view is not the same as the ref's view.
 
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Salido's tactics had a far greater impact on the result. Loma's tactics were negligible. Loma fucked up he should have gone much dirtier to cancel out Salido's dirty tactics.
Again there is no way to measure equality in that situation. Illegal is illegal. The only time it differs under the rules is if a point is taken or a fighter cant continue due to the illegal move. If Loma and his team couldn't get the ref to acknowledge the low blows then, yes what you said would of been a crafty experienced maneuver he was not ready for at the time.
 
Again there is no way to measure equality in that situation. Illegal is illegal. The only time it differs under the rules is if a point is taken or a fighter cant continue due to the illegal move. If Loma and his team couldn't get the ref to acknowledge the low blows then, yes what you said would of been a crafty experienced maneuver he was not ready for at the time.
We are not going to agree whether 100+ low blows had a greater significance then Loma pulling down on the head a few times, BUT I do agree that Loma wasn't ready for the pros at that point, well certainly not the type of pro Salido was.
 
On the topic of fouls, how did you guys view Ward-Kessler?

Lots of headbutts/clashes of heads caused by Andre. I've watched the fight a few times and i don't think he did them intentionally but it was obviously reckless leading with and coming up with his head, and it had a big impact on the fight.

I've heard many people argue for Andre being a cheat and others say he was just reckless diving in with his head but had no malicious intent behind it.
 
On the topic of fouls, how did you guys view Ward-Kessler?

Lots of headbutts/clashes of heads caused by Andre. I've watched the fight a few times and i don't think he did them intentionally but it was obviously reckless leading with and coming up with his head, and it had a big impact on the fight.

I've heard many people argue for Andre being a cheat and others say he was just reckless diving in with his head but had no malicious intent behind it.

Ward was way, way too smart to do anything reckless in the ring. He knew exactly what he was doing IMO.
 
Its only an argument because you aren't reading and you keep saying the same shit. Loma loss. Move on.
I have seen the fight but unfortunately I dont exaggerate it and make up conspiracies about it. You are still flat ignoring and not understanding how your comfy broadcast view is not the same as the ref's view.
it's not a conspiracy, for fuck's sake. i'm calling the ref monumentally incompetent and biased, not corrupt.

if you look at that fight and say that it's understandable the ref didn't call any of the fouls, then go on and claim that the fouls didn't have an effect on the fight at all, you are either blind or intentionally obtuse.
 
On the topic of fouls, how did you guys view Ward-Kessler?

Lots of headbutts/clashes of heads caused by Andre. I've watched the fight a few times and i don't think he did them intentionally but it was obviously reckless leading with and coming up with his head, and it had a big impact on the fight.

I've heard many people argue for Andre being a cheat and others say he was just reckless diving in with his head but had no malicious intent behind it.
ward was dirty, period.

the second kovalev fight was discussed here a lot like the salido - lomachenko one. a bunch of fans were upset about ward's foul and thought it was bullshit, but there were quite a few people here who claimed the low blow to kovalev had no impact on the outcome. there's even a few regulars who played dumb claiming it wasn't even a nut shot.

i never understood why fans would call that stuff "crafty", though. the guy is using illegal tactics to win, that's not something we celebrate. it should be frowned upon and the cheater should be cast out by the fan base, instead they're regarded as "experienced".
 
The same people who don’t mind Cole’s lenience regarding Salido’s dirty tactics against Lomachenko can also agree wholeheartedly with the way Cortez broke every single clinch initiated by Hatton against Mayweather. They can also find Loma’s holding dirty and Floyd’s left elbow legit. The referee is always right, I guess.

Whilst this is true, there is also "Arguing For the Sake of It" Online Cunt Guy, & in the wild it can be almost impossible to tell these two rarefied species—autists who believe the ref's decision sacrosanct even if he lets one guy kick another like in that Juan Martin Coggi fight, & cunts on a wind-up—apart at first glance.

Taxonomy is hard, man, is what I'm trying to say.
 
it's not a conspiracy, for fuck's sake. i'm calling the ref monumentally incompetent and biased, not corrupt.

if you look at that fight and say that it's understandable the ref didn't call any of the fouls, then go on and claim that the fouls didn't have an effect on the fight at all, you are either blind or intentionally obtuse.
Intentionally obtuse like by ignoring the fact the ref doesn't have instant replay or a broadcast feed for post after post after post.

Yes low blows are an illegal advantage . So were other things Loma did.
 
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