Julio Cesar Chavez isn't a top 50 boxer of all time

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...in my opinion

The man beat like 80 cab drivers to pad his record and doesn't have single decisive win over a prime first-ballot hall of famer. Obviously everyone knows that his "draw" with Whitaker was one of the worst decisions ever, and also got whooped by a young DLH and made a gazillion excuses afterwards.

I honestly think Marquez has a better resume than Chavez by far.
 
...in my opinion

The man beat like 80 cab drivers to pad his record and doesn't have single decisive win over a prime first-ballot hall of famer. Obviously everyone knows that his "draw" with Whitaker was one of the worst decisions ever, and also got whooped by a young DLH and made a gazillion excuses afterwards.

I honestly think Marquez has a better resume than Chavez by far.
OK. But I've got to ask, how old are you? Were you around during his prime?
I'm by no means a huge Chavez fan but there's no denying that he was a great fighter. Just maybe not as great as some would like us to believe. But, I have my reasons for saying that.
Still, I think he probably sneaks into the top 50 of all time.
 
OK. But I've got to ask, how old are you? Were you around during his prime?
I'm by no means a huge Chavez fan but there's no denying that he was a great fighter. Just maybe not as great as some would like us to believe. But, I have my reasons for saying that.
Still, I think he probably sneaks into the top 50 of all time.
I wasn't around during his prime but I've watched many of his fights during his prime years and nothing about his ability or resume screams top 50 to me. You're right in that he's probably a borderline top 50 fighter but he's put on a pedestal like he belongs in the same sentence as Robinson, Duran, Louis etc. and he's not close to those guys.
 
I wasn't around during his prime but I've watched many of his fights during his prime years and nothing about his ability or resume screams top 50 to me. You're right in that he's probably a borderline top 50 fighter but he's put on a pedestal like he belongs in the same sentence as Robinson, Duran, Louis etc. and he's not close to those guys.

I think he's got a better resume than you give him credit for though. His wins over Mario Martinez, Reuben Castillo, Roger Mayweather ( twice ), Edwin Rosario, Jose Luis Ramirez, Meldrick Taylor ( twice ) & Hector Camacho stand out to me. I'll throw Rocky Lockridge & Greg Haugan in there too even though the Lockridge fight could have gone either way & Haugan was past his best.
I don't give him credit for the Juan Laporte fight though because I thought that was a robbery. Same with his rematch with Frankie Randall. IMO he lost that fight too.
 
he’s arguably top 15.

mayweather x2, castillo, ramirez, taylor, rosario, camacho, randall, haugen, laporte. 107-6-2 in 25 years of fighting. 18-4-2 against world champions.
 
he’s arguably top 15.

mayweather x2, castillo, ramirez, taylor, rosario, camacho, randall, haugen, laporte. 107-6-2 in 25 years of fighting. 18-4-2 against world champions.
"World champion" doesn't mean anything in a sport with this many weight classes and belts.

First-ballot hall of famer is a better criteria to use when judging ATGs, and Chavez doesn't have a single non-controversial win over one in his prime.

And Roger Mayweather was a good, not great fighter. He wouldn't even be top 20 on Floyd or Pacquiao's resumes.
 
He dominated fighters who were already past their peak, IMO Taylor was his best win because Taylor was in his peak and even then Chavez didnt dominate him in the first fight.
 
Classic case of picking apart ANY resume. And if it isn't the resume, it's the perfomance. You can't be everything to everyone.

Don't take a dump on Chavez from your slightly worn out office chair and feel like you've brought forward some gem of wisdom. Chavez and others who are incredible talents sometimes have extended lists of C level fighters. But look at the their peak years. Rosario? Really good win.

Pep got similar criticism. Guess what though? He would school pretty much ANY featherweight EVER in the history of gloved boxing, but guess what....better say that he fought a bunch of cabbies (untrue oversimplification anyway). If a soft puncher like Pep can come back from a KO loss to cleanly beat a monster in a peak Sandy Sadler, for an entire fight and win when he was already sliding and past his peak, then that is a goddamn great boxer.

Chavez is an aggressive, high intensity fighter that presses his opponents. Do you all know these guys fade by about 30? Look at when all the big names turned up? Anything after 30 for a guy like JCC or Chocolatito (Greb, too), is borrowed time.

Chavez is sooo good that he probably doesn't give a floppy fuck if we are arguing about top 50. Here we are, talking about a retired old man who many of us weren't old enough to watch and fully appreciate. I think the conversation speaks indirect volumes to his greatness.

Top 50 is so goddamn subjective that everyone will argue. I am having an argument right now about the top ten empires in the past 10,000 years but there are some disputes. Alexander the Great never truly got tested. The Persian Empire was fading and he never really fought a true threat like Carthage in the West, and Rome was an under-developed prospect at the time so the match couldn't be made. Alexander the Great is the worse than a bucket of shit when it comes to leadership.

The internet is cruel.
 
Great resume, physical abilities and craft.

Getting picky about the padding of his record and the handful of lenient decisions he got is laughable if you don't do the same with pretty much any old timer in the Hall of Fame.
 
It’s because Chavez at his very best in the appropriate weight class simply destroyed everyone and made them look not as good. A lot of these guys would have gone on to bigger and greater things if Chavez didn’t exist. He is was simply that good. Even Oscar who is one of the most bitter people on the planet (never admitted losses and when he did it was with an excuse) was always very open at how if he fought Chavez a few years earlier he would have gotten his ass kicked.

chavez is a legend, he just shouldn’t have gone up in weight, that is not for everyone.
 
A lot of people rate him as the greatest mexican boxer, accomplishment wise.
It's not easy to get that accolade with a boxing history like Mexico. So that alone should put him in the top 50, at least.
 
Classic case of picking apart ANY resume. And if it isn't the resume, it's the perfomance. You can't be everything to everyone.

Don't take a dump on Chavez from your slightly worn out office chair and feel like you've brought forward some gem of wisdom. Chavez and others who are incredible talents sometimes have extended lists of C level fighters. But look at the their peak years. Rosario? Really good win.

Pep got similar criticism. Guess what though? He would school pretty much ANY featherweight EVER in the history of gloved boxing, but guess what....better say that he fought a bunch of cabbies (untrue oversimplification anyway). If a soft puncher like Pep can come back from a KO loss to cleanly beat a monster in a peak Sandy Sadler, for an entire fight and win when he was already sliding and past his peak, then that is a goddamn great boxer.

Chavez is an aggressive, high intensity fighter that presses his opponents. Do you all know these guys fade by about 30? Look at when all the big names turned up? Anything after 30 for a guy like JCC or Chocolatito (Greb, too), is borrowed time.

Chavez is sooo good that he probably doesn't give a floppy fuck if we are arguing about top 50. Here we are, talking about a retired old man who many of us weren't old enough to watch and fully appreciate. I think the conversation speaks indirect volumes to his greatness.

Top 50 is so goddamn subjective that everyone will argue. I am having an argument right now about the top ten empires in the past 10,000 years but there are some disputes. Alexander the Great never truly got tested. The Persian Empire was fading and he never really fought a true threat like Carthage in the West, and Rome was an under-developed prospect at the time so the match couldn't be made. Alexander the Great is the worse than a bucket of shit when it comes to leadership.

The internet is cruel.
Fantastic post
 
I know this is random and not much of a contribution to the conversation but the first thing I always think about every time I ever hear Julio Cesar Chavez’s name is good fucking lawd I can’t believe his fight with Greg Haugen had 132,000 people in attendance. That’s just absolutely effing insane. That’s gotta be a record. Does any other fight even come close to having that many people in attendance? I swear this is something I think about every time I see Chavez’s name. It just blows me away. 132,000 people watching you fight in person. Just crazy lol. Imagine being there? I bet it was incredible. Except for when it was time for the parking lot to clear out lol
 
Who knows what is all time ranking is? All I know is he was a bad man. To say otherwise is biased or uninformed. Shoot, the guy almost finished a hundred plus fight career undefeated, that sure sounds worthy of a top 50 vote to me.
 
I honestly think you'd have a hard time finding 49 guys who were clearly better than Chavez. I mean, I wouldn't have him in my top 10 or even 20 but from there, you're not going to find many guys that you can say are clearly better than Chavez.
 
I honestly think you'd have a hard time finding 49 guys who were clearly better than Chavez. I mean, I wouldn't have him in my top 10 or even 20 but from there, you're not going to find many guys that you can say are clearly better than Chavez.
What about Holyfield?
Canelo?
Tyson?
Ward?

Those four guys wouldn't make the top 50 cut on most "expert" (aka nostalgics who rank Greb and Armstrong ahead of Ali) lists, yet I think they're all superior fighters to Chavez.
 
What about Holyfield?
Canelo?
Tyson?
Ward?

Those four guys wouldn't make the top 50 cut on most "expert" (aka nostalgics who rank Greb and Armstrong ahead of Ali) lists, yet I think they're all superior fighters to Chavez.
Tyson barely makes a top 15 for HW list, yet alone amongst all boxers. He's not superior to Chavez.

Canelo will be there by end of career, his resume is great, even if im not a fan of the person. Holyfield - YES he makes it, absolutely. Ward, on talent alone makes it, but on what he's done, despite great, did miss a lot of his prime with promotional issues.
 
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