Judoka Vs. Wrestler?

[Bmonk**]

I am a Judoka, and I recently fought a wrestler at a no-gi grappling tournament.

I took him down twice. Once with a knee block, and once with a ko-uchigari.

It really depends on the person.

 

[The Technical]

Usually wrestling has a better chance do to the relative "simplicity" of the techniques.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

It depends on what theya re wearing and their size, strenght, etc. but assuming all things are equal(which they never are), I would give a slight edge to the wrestler.

 

[Q mystic]

generally p4p wrestlers are stronger and more atheletic than judokas even at the olympic lvl. They have to be they don't have the gi to hold on to.

Don't know about strength, but power...

Canadian - judoka 1RM bench press - 100kg. and grip strength - 112.1kg
elite varsity wrestlers 1RM bench - 98.5 kg. and grip strength - 102.1kg.

Taylor et al (1989) - From The Sport Science of Elite Judo Athletes. A reveiew and applicatrion for training. Waylund J. Pulkinnen.

 

[Aardvark]

WRONG!
WRONG!
WRONG!
WRONG!
WRONG!

Let me tell you about REAL JUDO PRACTICES. I was an English teacher at a school in Japan that had won the national championship- Okinawa Shougaku in Naha, Okinawa.

I lived in the Judo dorm (it was an apartment building with extra rooms), although I was only a teacher. These guys trained HARDER than any highe school wrestling program I had ever participated in, and yes, I placed 3rd in the state of Florida for both freestyle and High School (Class 4A- 1994, State Tourney, 135 lbs.). We practiced from 2:30-5:30pm 5 days a week, with short pratices on Saturday, only during the wrestlings seasons. So, yes, I know what I am talking about.

These students trained, lived and slept Judo. They woke up at 5:30am, had breakfast, then practiced from 6am til 7:30am. they went to school, then they have practice again from 2:30-6pm.

Their routine consisted of Stretch/Cardio 2:30-3pm, newaza (ground work) and drills from 3-4pm. Stand up drill from 4pm-4:30ish. Then followed by 1.5 of INTENSE sparring with not only other team members, but the Okinawa SWAT team and various adult expert Judoka.

Those Japanese Judoka dedicate themselves at the high school level at the same level as college wrestlers do. So, to say that Judo practices are not as diificult and intense as wrestling is just plain wrong.

Maybe you are referring to the YMCA Judo schools that you may have seen, but real judo practices are as intense, if not more intense, than the average high school wrestling practice.

If guard game was going to be training with a japanese competition team, what you just said would be relevant.

Given he wants people to tell him he's better off not wrestling at a good high school wrestling program in the US and instead taking judo at a podunk local judo school....... not so relevant.

Guardgame - you've asked similar questions repeatedly without getting the answers you want. Make your decision and deal with it, stop trying to get validation from a bunch of faceless strangers on the internet. Judo and BJJ are both awesome arts. Practice what you like, train hard and reap the rewards.

 

[Shadowdean]

The rulon gardner fight was absolutly terrible...was like a shitty boxing match. NO grappling displayed at all.

 

[Aardvark]

Don't know about strength, but power...

Canadian - judoka 1RM bench press - 100kg. and grip strength - 112.1kg
elite varsity wrestlers 1RM bench - 98.5 kg. and grip strength - 102.1kg.

Taylor et al (1989) - From The Sport Science of Elite Judo Athletes. A reveiew and applicatrion for training. Waylund J. Pulkinnen.

uhm.... 1RM is a measure of strength

Also, both grip strength and the BP would be biased towards judoka. Grips make up the majority of the game at an international level (or so a great many accomplished judo fellows have written and occasionally told me personally). Despite stereotypes, in folkstyle wrestling bench press is much less indicative of the kind of strength used than say a squat or clean.

This is kind of like the stats that are thrown around about o-lifters where all the tests are measures of explosive hip extension, which *gasp* o-lifters turn out to be amazing at.

I'd be curious to see the core strength of both compared. The handful of semi-serious judo people (i.e. brown/black with some competition experience, but nothing amazing) I've had a chance to roll with all had freaky core strength.

 

[Gaylon Cooper]

Don't know about strength, but power...

Canadian - judoka 1RM bench press - 100kg. and grip strength - 112.1kg
elite varsity wrestlers 1RM bench - 98.5 kg. and grip strength - 102.1kg.

Taylor et al (1989) - From The Sport Science of Elite Judo Athletes. A reveiew and applicatrion for training. Waylund J. Pulkinnen.

That is a very interesting artical. I will have to read it.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

The two times I have seen experienced wrestlers enter Judo tournaments, I was in for a surprise. Both times the guys were good wrestlers with a couple of titles to their credit. One was from Russia, the other from a middle eastern county and I forgotten which one. The better of the two had recently started BJJ as well. In both cases, they entered a lower level class in the Judo tournament which I assumed would be unfair given their backgrounds. I thought it would be a slaughter.

In both cases, the wrestlers walked right in bent over in a crouch position. And each time the Judoka would get whatever grips they wanted and the fight was basically over. The wrestlers had no idea how to escape the grips and were completely on the defensive.

If the try to pull away, the Judoka threw them backwards. If they charged, they were thrown forwards. They attempted a shot, they were faceplanted into the mat using the grips. And of course, every other competitor in the weight class was standing their watching the match and immediately made a mental note on the successful strategy with the wrestlers. I think the one with BJJ experience won one match by arm bar after being way down on points. But aside from that, the two were pretty much owned in every other match.

Keep in mind these were guys that claim years of wrestling experience and several titles fighting against guys that may have 1-2 years of 2-3 times a week in Judo. Granted with a little preparation by the wrestlers on grip strategy, etc. they could probably have dominated. But both were fully convinced they would walk in and mop the mats with the guys and never bothered to even read the rules.

So as you can see, it really depends on the situation when you make a X vs. Y proposition. Are you talking a street fight in a cold environment? A fight on a beach? A wrestler in a judo tournament? Judoka in wrestling tournament? Do they have time (and inclination) to study the other style and rules ahead of time? Time to study the opponent ahead of time? Are they the same size? All of these and million others matter in each situation to make a determination.

 

[Q mystic]

uhm.... 1RM is a measure of strength

Also, both grip strength and the BP would be biased towards judoka. Grips make up the majority of the game at an international level (or so a great many accomplished judo fellows have written and occasionally told me personally). Despite stereotypes, in folkstyle wrestling bench press is much less indicative of the kind of strength used than say a squat or clean.

This is kind of like the stats that are thrown around about o-lifters where all the tests are measures of explosive hip extension, which *gasp* o-lifters turn out to be amazing at.

I'd be curious to see the core strength of both compared. The handful of semi-serious judo people (i.e. brown/black with some competition experience, but nothing amazing) I've had a chance to roll with all had freaky core strength.

Thanks. It says it right in the book. :redface:

From the book, for Canadian judo athletes 13.7W.kg-1. for lower body anaerobic (pk pwr.)
11.3W.kg-1. for upper body
in comparison, Olympic wrestlers 6.1 - 7.5W.kg-1.(thats all it says.)
British judoka 8.5 - 10.6W.kg.-1(capacity and peak)
gymnasts 10.0 - 11.5W.kg-1.

I would have guessed wrestlers would be at the top. Maybe because their motor is always running red-line. Unless the numbers state differently.

 

[Sherdog_Mutt]

The ONLY THING that the Rulon Gardner vs. Hidehiko Yoshida fight proved was that they respected each other's grappling ability so much that it de-evolved into a bad boxing match.

 

[Aardvark]

Thanks. It says it right in the book. :redface:

From the book, for Canadian judo athletes 13.7W.kg-1. for lower body anaerobic (pk pwr.)
11.3W.kg-1. for upper body
in comparison, Olympic wrestlers 6.1 - 7.5W.kg-1.(thats all it says.)
British judoka 8.5 - 10.6W.kg.-1(capacity and peak)
gymnasts 10.0 - 11.5W.kg-1.

I would have guessed wrestlers would be at the top. Maybe because their motor is always running red-line. Unless the numbers state differently.

Yeah, those number sound a little weird. I wouldn;t have been shocked that olympic level judoka are comparable to olympic level wrestlers in anaerobic capacity but thats a *huge* difference that I find a little hard to swallow. But there you have it. Olympic level wrestlers are weaklings. Which is hardly a surprise as any couch potato suburban bjj blue belt would wipe the mats with them.

 

[Q mystic]

Yeah, those number sound a little weird. I wouldn;t have been shocked that olympic level judoka are comparable to olympic level wrestlers in anaerobic capacity but thats a *huge* difference that I find a little hard to swallow. But there you have it. Olympic level wrestlers are weaklings. Which is hardly a surprise as any couch potato suburban bjj blue belt would wipe the mats with them.

The book is Canadian But I should include the tests were done with different authors. Wrestlers were (Horsewill et al 1992) so the testing could be done differently.??? The styles are so similar I would guess that they would be also. Wrestlers don't have as much opprtunity to stall or rest without the gi imo.

btw, I would still guess that wrestlers the same, if not stronger. They seem to be from my experience. Although stats are always interesting.

I got it... It also says this may be due to the wide fluctuations in body mass of the subjects. ...No shit. I should have read the whole thing before posting. My apologies.

So this told us nothing.

GAWD. I'm not really that fricken stupid. Just over excited with my book