Judo - still the only Grappling style that works against multiple attackers

I appreciate you sharing our videos - but I have to disagree the statement.
 
meauneau said:
I agree with this. You can use Greco grips and all that. The point is getting through the punches. Also, the follow up after the throw and what if they pull you down or get pushed down?
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A good throw or footsweep could finish without need for followup.
Yes if they pull you down etc itsl could get messy...
Ideally ou need to add some striking or even just some hard slaps but the point is majority of Judo throws or sweeps are designed to let you remain on your feet which is compatable with defending against multiple opponents.
If you add boxing or palm strikes it is of course going to be that much better.

lechien said:
While Judo is really good for its tachiwaza (sparring for takedown).
There is a major problem which is ingrained due to their sport rules.
The judoka would just go flat as a pancake when he fails a takedow or when he refuses to continue in newaza.
That habit could get you in serious problem in a street fight.
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Have no idea what you are saying here. Judoka do not go 'flat' if they dont get the throw. They go for another one again, sometimes instantly.
If you mean on the ground to stop a pin if somehow they got your back and were try to turn you over yes some do either turtle up or flatten out but this situation doesnt happen enough to become any kind of ingrained habit it is conscious, 70% of time in Judo is spent with standing grappling and on the ground there is also awareness of chokes and strangles to avoid.
This also is irrelevant to the point I was making, if the throw is blocked you transition to another or reset and move and try again all of which is from standing.

efficientjudo said:
I appreciate you sharing our videos - but I have to disagree the statement.
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Thanks for the vids. I was looking for a quick comp of throws to illustrate the point.
Am curious why you say you disagree however.

Against lets say 3 untrained guys I would be confident to throw or sweep them easily in rapid sucession.
Dont forget the shocking sight of seeing their buddy flying through the air which may demoralize the others but if not then not an issue to repeat with the others. Of course it may be messy which is why you would need to likely add at least some open hand pushes or pulls etc to get position on the feet but still very possible.

I think an overlooked area of training that could be done more in randori with multiple uke coming in at different angles in succession repeatedly.
 
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So...sambo, freestyle wrestling, shuai jiao, sumo and all the other tons and tons of grappling styles don't work even though their practitioners also become masters at throwing people and often use the same techniques as judoka, even if under different names?
 
I dont know if the hardest finnickiest throws should form the basis of your multiple opponent self defense plan. Dave camarillo, judo enthusiast, said in his self defense course ALL throws that werent gross motor movement (just pulling a dude down, morote, etc.) were too risky.

When a high level judoka tells you his tokuiwaza is too risky for his self defense plan, it makes you realize how basing your life around self defense is kinda dumb, as the diminishing returns hit instantly.
 
Someone on here once said

I've seen boxers knock out 4 or more opponents but I'm yet to see a BJJ or Judo guy grapple a whole gang into submission.
 
DatCutman said:
I dont know if the hardest finnickiest throws should form the basis of your multiple opponent self defense plan. Dave camarillo, judo enthusiast, said in his self defense course ALL throws that werent gross motor movement (just pulling a dude down, morote, etc.) were too risky.

When a high level judoka tells you his tokuiwaza is too risky for his self defense plan, it makes you realize how basing your life around self defense is kinda dumb, as the diminishing returns hit instantly.
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Yeah, the whole gross motor movements thing is a huge factor, which is why even in striking, many “Flowery” techniques ultimately morph into sloppy boxing.
 
lechien said:
TS needs to stop watching you tube videos and actually go train Judo.
While Judo is really good for its tachiwaza (sparring for takedown).
There is a major problem which is ingrained due to their sport rules.
The judoka would just go flat as a pancake when he fails a takedow or when he refuses to continue in newaza.
That habit could get you in serious problem in a street fight.
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Great depth. What we'd expect from a 'gold' belt.<Oku04>
 
Why is nobody mentioning weapons? Let's go backward through last 3 "streetfights".

1: two attackers, one with brass knuckles
2: two attackers, one with club
3: at least two attackers (can't quite remember)

2 in particular was interesting. What basically saved my life was the ability to disarm the club. After that standup was enough for KO. Then I had to disarm the club a SECOND TIME from the second attacker after I dropped it to fight the first guy "fairly". Mistake. In 1 my face was sliced up badly, almost lost an eye. Also got bitten badly. Experiences like these make me chuckle a bit when reading "real fighting" posts.
 
esdoornblad said:
Why is nobody mentioning weapons? Let's go backward through last 3 "streetfights".

1: two attackers, one with brass knuckles
2: two attackers, one with club
3: at least two attackers (can't quite remember)

2 in particular was interesting. What basically saved my life was the ability to disarm the club. After that standup was enough for KO. Then I had to disarm the club a SECOND TIME from the second attacker after I dropped it to fight the first guy "fairly". Mistake. In 1 my face was sliced up badly, almost lost an eye. Also got bitten badly. Experiences like these make me chuckle a bit when reading "real fighting" posts.
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When I grow up I hope I can be as cool as you.
 
esdoornblad said:
Why is nobody mentioning weapons? Let's go backward through last 3 "streetfights".

1: two attackers, one with brass knuckles
2: two attackers, one with club
3: at least two attackers (can't quite remember)

2 in particular was interesting. What basically saved my life was the ability to disarm the club. After that standup was enough for KO. Then I had to disarm the club a SECOND TIME from the second attacker after I dropped it to fight the first guy "fairly". Mistake. In 1 my face was sliced up badly, almost lost an eye. Also got bitten badly. Experiences like these make me chuckle a bit when reading "real fighting" posts.
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This vid is not multiple attackers but I'm inlcuding it here because its damn cool.

Man disarms and throws a guy who is holding a women hostage with a knife.



Brave as hell and no room for error.
Actually he uses my favourite throw Ippon Seo Nage to simultaneously disarm and throw the guy. I had never considered a throw before as part of a knife disarm.

Judo has hidden depths....
 
esdoornblad said:
Why is nobody mentioning weapons? Let's go backward through last 3 "streetfights".

1: two attackers, one with brass knuckles
2: two attackers, one with club
3: at least two attackers (can't quite remember)

2 in particular was interesting. What basically saved my life was the ability to disarm the club. After that standup was enough for KO. Then I had to disarm the club a SECOND TIME from the second attacker after I dropped it to fight the first guy "fairly". Mistake. In 1 my face was sliced up badly, almost lost an eye. Also got bitten badly. Experiences like these make me chuckle a bit when reading "real fighting" posts.
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*Like*

Totally agree. Unarmed, 1v1 fighting is a luxury.

Most people are cowards, and will stack the odds in their favor as much as possible. They will stomp someone out over a fuckin Football game...
 
Os3y3ris said:
Out grappling untrained multiples is easy tbh
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Not if you spent your entire life rolling on the floor against just one guy and barely trained a throw/takedown.
He is ignorant of this area of grappling. Forgive him, its not his fault he knows not what he does.
 
Like I sayd before, 90% of people in the streets cant punch for shit, doesnt have any experience and more often than not will freeze in a combat situation. Any Martial art training will help you in a 2v1 situation.
Ps: just because someone trains BJJ or wtv, it doesnt mean they wont throw punches instead of double legging.
 
BJJ_Rage said:
Says the guy with 1 year of grappling lol... try throwing someone when 2 guys are swinging at you
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This. Im a judo bluebbelt, wrestled in hs and bjj blue, do mt,...we have done mock scenarios for self defense where its on vs one or a free for all, it doesnt work out with multiple attackers. True irl they likely arent trained, but a heavy punch to your temple or back of your head, kick to the nads or back while others might jump in will fuck your shit up.

What if the guy you throw hangs on, is decently tough and still active? Even in a 2 on 1 scenario OP, you are most likely fudged if you cant distance manage or throw strikes, let alone 3 or 4. Grappling multi opponents is asking to be fed by straws for a month.
 
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The most frustrating aspect of this argument is that it is easily testable, in a relatively safe environment. Rope some white belts into working with you, or other similarly self defense minded folk, and find out. Film it, post a video.

We did a day at the gym where we all agreed to wear street clothes (stuff we didnt care about, obvs) to test grips on normal clothing. It was fun to dick around with stupid grips, but also answered some questions for a lot of folks in a practical manner.

Theory crafting is such a waste of time when you can literally test it for yourself. I see responses of "its too dangerous i might get accidentally punched too hard" or "yea well im only a yellow belt i couldnt pull it off yet"...which begs the question, if you cant pull it off with your relatively peaceable friends, how the hell are you going to pull it off against some angry boys?
 
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