Judo ranks

[J Sho]

Judo has (in general) a well defined promotion framework with clear expectations around the theoretical knowledge and practical application (in competition or other) needed to progress.

BJJ in contrast has a rather nebulous promotion system (You don't even need to compete to get graded.) that can vary dramatically from club to club or even from instructor to instructor within a given organisation. BJJ also has the common (and to my mind TMAish) theme of "paying dues" at a given belt, in contrast to other belted and unbelted grappling arts such as nogi, judo, sambo and wrestling, where you can rise to the level of competition your ability permits.

People comparing a bjj blue belt to a brown or purple belt to a black are off base imo.
You could (generally speaking) look at any two judo black belts in the UK or France and have a fair idea what they had to do to get there and their relative understanding of the art - i'm not sure you can really do that for a bjj blue or purple belt.

What you could probably state with reasonable certainty, is that the higher the belt you are in BJJ, the more likely it is that you teach the art ( indeed the ability to teach is probably a common factor in promotions to brown or black belt in BJJ), the same is probably not true for Judo.

 

[J Sho]

I agree.

BJJ Blue == Judo Brown
BJJ Purple == Judo Black

Was that directed at me? I been doing Judo for a years, certainly not a white belt.

I'm confused, given you are (according to your sig) a BJJ blue belt, why are you only a judo green belt (according to your sig) and not a judo brown belt?

 

[redaxe]

What you could probably state with reasonable certainty, is that the higher the belt you are in BJJ, the more likely it is that you teach the art ( indeed the ability to teach is probably a common factor in promotions to brown or black belt in BJJ), the same is probably not true for Judo.

Yes, I basically agree. But the other thing you can state with reasonable certainty is that the higher-ranked practitioner would win a competitive match against the lower-ranked one. Of course there are exceptions, but there are much fewer exceptions to this in BJJ than in any other martial art that has belt ranks.

 

[Auspex]

This is the "No true Scotsman" fallacy. If I were to show you an example of an accomplished Judoka with a terrible ground game, you would simply retort that he is not a "traditional" Judoka, denying the example tautologically.

Yet you do not grant the same qualifier to the BJJ athlete, and assume they all have the same level of throwing ability.

So, your statement is pure baloney.

The comparison is always brought up to compare the GROUND GAME of the practicioner in question.

Attempting to prove your point using words, like tautologically - man, I'm not even gonna search this meaning. Hope you feel like you won.

Let's say as a Judoka of a 5years my ground game isn't as developed as someone whos spent similar time doing BJJ. That same person isn't going to have as developed standup game. Sure, that's a generlization, but it's a pretty safe one. And is good enough for this story.

My skill may get me some ranking in JuiJitsu, like wise the BJJer should recieve some sort of ranking in Judo, assuming he was done ANY worth while Judo style take downs.

But, I see Judo ne waza HL's everywhere, but ZERO BJJ take down HL's. GODDAMNIT, I jsut started a BJJ v. Judo post...didn't mean to.

I just think the cross referencing of belts is silly and imbalanced

 

[Auspex]

I agree.

BJJ Blue == Judo Brown

BJJ Purple == Judo Black

In what regards? Explain even a little bit...

I've never played with a single BJJ guy that WASN"T a black belt that had NEAR the take down prowess of a Judoka.

 

[fourfif**]

I'm not questioning anyones credentials.

This comparison is constantly talked about and it's ridiculous.

A black belt in any martial art is an accomplishment anyone should be proud of and does not need to be downgraded to satisfy anyones ego.

bleh.

typical f12 drivel.

there's gold in here too, but you will have to sift through some crap sometimes.

 

[Auspex]

don't mean to knock the f12 group, much better than hanging around the judoforum.com folks.

Those guys kill me. Most close minded folks in the grappling world, I guess

 

[redaxe]

The comparison is always brought up to compare the GROUND GAME of the practicioner in question.

Attempting to prove your point using words, like tautologically - man, I'm not even gonna search this meaning. Hope you feel like you won.

Let's say as a Judoka of a 5years my ground game isn't as developed as someone whos spent similar time doing BJJ. That same person isn't going to have as developed standup game. Sure, that's a generlization, but it's a pretty safe one. And is good enough for this story.

My skill may get me some ranking in JuiJitsu, like wise the BJJer should recieve some sort of ranking in Judo, assuming he was done ANY worth while Judo style take downs.

But, I see Judo ne waza HL's everywhere, but ZERO BJJ take down HL's. GODDAMNIT, I jsut started a BJJ v. Judo post...didn't mean to.

I just think the cross referencing of belts is silly and imbalanced

The truth is, guys who only do BJJ suck at Judo, and guys who only do Judo suck at BJJ. Even though there are a lot of shared techniques and concepts, one focuses like 90% on the standing part and the other focuses like 90% on the ground part. You need to cross-train in both sports to be good at both.

 

[fourfif**]

don't mean to knock the f12 group, much better than hanging around the judoforum.com folks.

Those guys kill me. Most close minded folks in the grappling world, I guess

luckily the guy I learn judo from wrestled with me in high school, so he's really open minded.


he even brings bjj guys and when we hit the mat it's a full on bjj style roll.

 

[Auspex]

The truth is, guys who only do BJJ suck at Judo, and guys who only do Judo suck at BJJ. Even though there are a lot of shared techniques and concepts, one focuses like 90% on the standing part and the other focuses like 90% on the ground part. You need to cross-train in both sports to be good at both.

edit: sorta.

I was just ranting about the belt comparisons. I understand where the come from but they are always poorly done.

 

[fourfif**]

guys who only do Judo suck at BJJ.

mmm... I don't agree with this necessarily.

their top game is generally pretty tough, and they can at least turtle and stand/defend.

 

[AirCorps]

mmm... I don't agree with this necessarily.

their top game is generally pretty tough, and they can at least turtle and stand/defend.

thought they were very similar sports?

 

[redaxe]

mmm... I don't agree with this necessarily.

their top game is generally pretty tough, and they can at least turtle and stand/defend.

But they are also stubborn and will keep trying to use the same ineffective ways of breaking and passing closed guard, which allows me to triangle them the exact same way over and over again.

Eh... this really is becoming another stupid bjj vs. judo thread

 

[BuenoEx]

Although this is a rarity, if you are a decent competitor it is possible to get to shodan in 16 months in the UK and a similar time period in the US. However, the players that i have spoken to that have done this really dropped back after their shodan and are working on their weaknesses (left side throws, kata, throws they haven't had a lot of success with or even tried in competition). These aren't the norm, I just wanted to let you know that it is possible it just takes a lot of points.

 

[AnOddParadigm]

In what regards? Explain even a little bit...

I've never played with a single BJJ guy that WASN"T a black belt that had NEAR the take down prowess of a Judoka.

I think he means in regards to how much time you have dedicated to the art, not in any particular grappling ability.

 

[Auspex]

good morning.

 

[Auspex]

Although this is a rarity, if you are a decent competitor it is possible to get to shodan in 16 months in the UK and a similar time period in the US. However, the players that i have spoken to that have done this really dropped back after their shodan and are working on their weaknesses (left side throws, kata, throws they haven't had a lot of success with or even tried in competition). These aren't the norm, I just wanted to let you know that it is possible it just takes a lot of points.

I understand this, but it shouldn't be so.

Even the most elite competitor should have to have a minimum time in Judo to gain a BB. I get that he deserves recognition if he was able to tear through competitors, but it makes a bit of a mockery of the belt, imo.

BB is not just a measure of competitive ability, but dedication and commitment.

 

[CajunJudoka]

http://www.global-training-report.com/corpo_quatro.htm

This is a good read. It talks about why Helio wore I light blue belt and even talks about Rickson training judo with Mehdi. This is such a good read. Put down your Judo and BJJ blinders and educate yourself.

Train hard, stay safe.

 

[Auspex]

http://www.global-training-report.com/corpo_quatro.htm

This is a good read. It talks about why Helio wore I light blue belt and even talks about Rickson training judo with Mehdi. This is such a good read. Put down your Judo and BJJ blinders and educate yourself.

Train hard, stay safe.

cool read.

Rickson's part made me laugh a bit, makes sense he'd feel a bit shy walking into a Judo club. Does this mean he would've been a white belt?

j/k

I don't think anyone here is wearing blinders, but there definitely is a misunderstanding of each others abilities for those who don't cross train.

 

[CajunJudoka]

I liked the Rickson's comments also. My favorite part was the explanation of why Helio and others wear the light blue belt. It's a little differnent then what some people think around here and other places.