Judo: one of the ultimate grappling arts?

[stephensharp]

I said "we" do that and that.
And we do (German) Ju Jutsu.
So what is untrue about that.

Your original wording was "in jujutsu(a combination of judo, karate, and wing chun)...".

That would be akin to me saying "bratwurst(a type of sausage)", "heffeweisen(wheat beer)", or "in Boston (the capital of Massachusetts)"... Your wording implied that you were explaining what jujutsu was, which was incorrect. I hadn't realized you were foreign, however, and thus there can be a communication breakdown...

But even still, your reference ot Wikipedia's German page makes no mention of wing chun, but instead mentions all the arts that grew out of Japanese/Traditional Ju Jutsu. You guys basically retconned the art by combining all the aspects of it that splintered originally, but that doesn't change what jujutsu is, just what you're calling it. If I got my blackbelt in BJJ, then opened a school called "Sexy Fuckin' BJJ", then explained that "in BJJ(a combination of Judo, Kick Boxing, and oil wrestling)" in advertisements for the school, I would be presenting a falsehood based off my own bastardization of the art.

Additionally, wikipedia's accuracy is user-defined... I can go and edit that article to read "in jujutsu class, IMP kisses boys". If I then quote it here, are you unable to argue?

 

[eljamaiquino]

I got my source from numerous books on the "History of the Martial Arts" and so on. Its easy to find such info. That match up was against japanese Jiu-jitsu because BJJ didnt exist yet at that time! All BJJ basics are derived from Judo and BJJ have nothing Judo hasn't seen before except some leg locks. Same shit, different pile.

Judo did have leg locks. Read "A-Z of Judo" by Syd Hoare. Because they were banned from competition, they stopped being taught. BJJ is just the original Judo with less emphasis on the stand-up. That allows them to develop groundwork MUCH Much more. Same techniques, just different emphasis...

 

[Foul Breath]

the obvious reason not to go to the ground in a streetfight is because i dont want your friend stomping on my face while i armbar you, this leaves me bewildered as to why you are so sure you are at an advantage to a bjjer in the street (are you relying on your friends to do the dirty work?). also id like to call bullshit on your claim to have a purple belt from Renzo, I train Jiu jitsu with high-ranking renzo guys (who also train judo) and they all look at jiu jitsu in a very different way then you do, you sound more like an armchair warrior repeating the rhetoric you read on message boards. Iv never heard such negativity (that childish my art can beat yours crap) out of high ranking judokas or jiu jitsu guys they look at training and the arts very differently and in a much more mature way. I dont believe youv been training in judo for 15 yrs. and your jiu jitsu/judo claims dont sound like theyr coming from an individual experienced in either.

What difference does it make to me what you believe? And since when in a street fight is there such a thing as 'dirty work'? It's a fight to survive at all costs, you better have friends or a gun. Since your aim do defend BJJ (either because you are unfamiliar with other arts, or because you are biased) you are prone to being opinionated. I was taking about street fighting where I expressed my desire not to go to the ground for obvious reasons that you seem to agree with. Judo gives you the tools not to go to the ground should you wish to do so.

 

[Foul Breath]

Judo did have leg locks. Read "A-Z of Judo" by Syd Hoare. Because they were banned from competition, they stopped being taught. BJJ is just the original Judo with less emphasis on the stand-up. That allows them to develop groundwork MUCH Much more. Same techniques, just different emphasis...

Agreed.

 

[judogido]

I said "we" do that and that.
And we do (German) Ju Jutsu.
So what is untrue about that.

You said:

in ju jutsu (mixture of judo, karate, wingchun etc.) we do heelhooks and toeholds too.

Your statement was wrong - ju jutsu is NOT a mixture of judo, karate, wingchun etc. but....

Originally Posted by stephensharp
Jujutsu/Ju Jutsu/Japanese Jiu-Jitsu is the catch all name for the various martial arts of the samurai ryus of pre-1900's Japan. It fell out of vogue when their society changed, and it came to be associated with street thugs and prize fighters until Kano picked it up and repackaged a couple styles as Judo to make it public-friendly. Kodokan Ryu Jujitsu (what it was called for a while, or Kano Ryu) got it's ass whupped by Fusen Ryu, so pulled away all their best students and absorbed the school. Judo was born, reigned supreme until after the war, at which time sanctions placed on the Japanese government concerning disarmament and a ban on martial training (they weren't allowed to have an army) necesitated Judo's transformation into a sport. The sport was most easily won by throwing, so schools focused on that the way any sport school will focus on the best way to win at their sport.

Imp - sometimes it is better to just keep your mouth shut, seriously. Spend more time reading post like stephensharp's & you might actually learn something instead of proceeding in ignorance.

Like how JuJutsu is NOT "GERMAN JuJutsu". German JuJutsu is just a variation of the original JuJutsu - like Brazillian JiuJitsu, Judo or Sambo.

I think you need to go study a bit & improve your understanding of your art beyond the borders of Germany - this will save other people correcting you all the time.

 

[judogido]

Agreed.

Me also - but I think the art of BJJ has progressed past the "same techniques" thing by it's complete focus on the ground game.

You cant say BJJ's techniques are just Judo techniques - BJJ has just too many creative minds developing new & inventive ways to twisting your arms like pretzels & choking you till your eyes pop.

BJJ is built on a base of Judo & evolved past it to something different (as far as the ground game is concerned.)

 

[Bubble Boy]

Blabber boy, what is your ichi-ban tachi waza technique? Me probably yoko wakare. Do desu ka?

Penis Breath, probably multiple variations of Kata Guruma. Low and fast. One of my training partners excels at Yoko Wakare. Good throw.

On topic:

Those who study judo know that it has 3 aspects and is a complete system at the higher levels:
1) Randori (free fighting)
2) Kata
3) Weapons (after Second Dan)

Part of what makes Judo the ultimate grappling art is it's ability to offer very safe but fully throttled randori. I think if you look at all good martial styles (boxing, wrestling, muay thai, hockey), they all have within them the ability to go all out in "sparring." i.e., it's not a point scoring system only (TKD comes to mind).

The kata of judo are interesting, and I actually think you could take your points 2 and 3 and combine them, since most of the weapons work is realized through kata. In Goshin-Jutsu (a kata developed in 1956), defenses against a dagger, stick, and pistol are all practiced. Kime-No-Kata (created in 1888) is great self defense stuff (with seated and standing techniques).

I rarely see any black belts practicing this stuff, unless some testing is coming up, and then they're scrambling to get their shit together.

However, I wouldn't be practicing Judo if I didn't think it was the ultimate grappling style, and IMO the most well rounded martial art out there. Some people say "You only feel that way about Judo because you practice it." No. I only practice Judo because I feel that way about it.

Broadly speaking, it's tough to find holes in Judo's grappling game.

As Stephensharp said early, if you had the time to study BJJ, Judo, and Sambo for a long period of time, you'd have it all, and there wouldn't be any holes to find anywhere.

 

[Foul Breath]

Judogido and Blabber boy:

AGREED!




ps.... Blabber: Kata guruma is nice. Sometimes it's difficult to get in if the opponenet has a strong grip on your collar, so I dont practice it much and dont get thrown by it due to iron grip. How do you usually execute it in that case?

 

[loksxronin]

sambo has no chokes (or so i've heard) I love chokes, thus i take judo. oh, and there is no "ultamite" martial art, so just go cross train, the only martial art with all aspects equally acknowledged is mixed martial arts, and that depends on the athlete as well. I personally train in Judo, BJJ and muy thai, judo and BJJ are my favourites out of those, i love grappling.

 

[Bubble Boy]

ps.... Blabber: Kata guruma is nice. Sometimes it's difficult to get in if the opponenet has a strong grip on your collar, so I dont practice it much and dont get thrown by it due to iron grip. How do you usually execute it in that case?

Well, exactly, the grips are the key. I'm certainly no expert, but I just work grip defense and breaks until I have my opponent with only one grip on. Then I go to whatever side he's gripping, i.e. if he's got my right collar with his left hand, then I'm shooting for a left side kata guruma.

At his point in my limited judo career, it's all about grips.

 

[judogido]

... Blabber Boy?. Penis Breath?

.. that makes me Judo-dweebo?

 

[Foul Breath]

Jew do Guido.