Judo Guys: What Is Your Mindset During Randori?

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Balto

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I was hoping you judo guys could help me out a little on this one.

Basically, I'm a BJJ guy that trains with judo guys a lot. I always teach throws at my BJJ classes, and I think I have pretty decent throwing technique. When I am demonstrating with someone or just doing uchikomi/nagekomi, I have no real problem at all throwing my opponent.

The thing that trips me up in randori is that I'm only going for one throw at a time. I'm telegraphing my attack and even though it's not terrible technically, they see it coming and are able to defend.

When I match up against a higher level judo competitor, I can do okay and get a lot of minor scores, but I rarely ever get a nice ippon toss. Mainly because people see my big throws coming so I can't hit them.

So what I want to know from you guys is, what is going through your mind when you put together those slick combinations you always hit me with?

Do you just tell yourself "I am doing ouchi gari to uchi mata, no matter what" and just do that 100%?

Do you just kind of flow, but always follow up a certain technique with another one, e.g. every time you naturally do an ouchi gari, follow with uchi mata?

Or is it really just a completely natural flow from technique to technique that isn't preplanned at all? I kind of hope it's not that one because if that's the case it's going to be a while until I can get to that level.

Let me know guys. I'm just a BJJ guy who appreciates your throwing techniques and is working hard on getting there.
 
i am keen to hear some replys to this as well, good thread balto... waiting patiently for the judo guys...
 
For me, it is to work on by movement and keeping loose so I have better flow. Aside from that a lot of the time I may put some focus into some foot sweeps but typically I tend to try doing combinations of a foot technique to open the person up for a big throw and avoid getting thrown by using quick moment rather than just trying to block it and see if there is a chance for pulling a counter throw. And on the other hand I try not to worry about getting countered since it can cause me to hesitate when it comes to committing to a throw.
 
I don't mean to throw in with something non-judo oriented, but we randori in aikido as well. I would think with multi-opponent combat the mindset is generally the same. For me, what I try to do is think past the first threat. Sounds weird, maybe, but we all know that after doing endless drilling and practice, your body learns how to react. I've found that if I try to think past the first contact and stay one step ahead of myself, I react with a lot more fluidity. Instead of thinking "alright, I can irimi into such and such technique," I let myself assume that I will counter the first attack and start deciding what I'm going to do with the person once I have them. It makes for better decision making. Just my tangent two cents.
 
For me at least it's like a chess match or boxing match. I'll attempt a minor throw and see how they defend and what they do. I then use that to my advantage to try and set up what I want. So if I want to say Osoto Gari, I'll set up with throws that force to step back to avoid, then eventually i'll do the reap as he's moving in that direction.
 
u take what u can get. i guess i dont know shit compared to soild judo bb who throw guys like theres no tommorow but its like the ground u flow with the go with a lil something in mind. some guys can get their combos to work everytime though and they dont count. us normal guys will uchi mata if u lean forward, and osoto if u lean back. some guys can ippon seio no matter what your doing.
 
What I focus on is keeping my kuzushi good while trying to get my opponents kuzushi broken. To do this I usually have a few foot sweep/reap combos I like to throw out there or just things as simple as getting an opponent to commit to a push or pull. Once that's done there's a variety of throws I'll hit depending on where I am and where he is. If I don't get it (or feel right) I change it to something minor like a foot sweep to keep him off-balance. I tend not to trust my eyes cuz it misleading... feeling is so much more effective.
 
Well, a lot of the time I don't remember what throw I used. When I won the state championships, I was talking to a guy after our match, specifically about the armbar I won with, and we were kind of laughing about it. Then I was like "Wait a sec, how did we get to the ground in the first place?". He couldn't remember right off and I didn't at all. My sensei told me I had thrown him with tomoe nage and rolled over into mount.

Doing randori isn't a whole lot different than flowing on the ground except I think I find myself less aware of what is happening on my feet a lot, and that I throw on instinct, whereas on the ground I consciously set my subs and position up.

It sounds to me that you're kind of at an in-between stage. You know the throws but have difficulty putting them together without conscious thought yet. Much like the beginner grappler who knows juji gatame, knows sankaku jime and know sankaku garami but can't flow from one to the other and back. Randori is the time to practice those things though. So find some combinations that work for you and start practicing them that way. When you are doing uchikomi, don't just do osoto garai uchikomi - do osotogari/tai otoshi uchikomi.

Generally everyone has favorite combinations. Some combinations are actually the same throw, one after another. Koga does that a lot (You can see a not-so-good example of it in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCqeFyLPTao at about 1:27 against the russian). Enter for seoi nage, starts to come back out and then enters again right after. I do it with harai goshi, you can see it in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6KwlrDWu3g

So, work your combinations. A lot of Judo guys find it helpful to sit down and write all the possible combinations down. A short example of mine would be this:

Hiza Guruma to Hiza Guruma
Hiza Guruma to Ouchi Gari
Hiza Guruma to Harai Goshi
Hiza Guruma to Ouchi Gari to Harai Goshi

Harai goshi to Osoto Gari
Osoto Gari to Harai Goshi

Etc etc...

I make an effort to practice them all in randori so that when it comes time for an actual fight, I'm able to do it without thinking about it.
 
the more times you dio randori and the longer yo take jdo, you will start to see openings then capitalize, yo always start going for one thro bt then as yo become advanced, yo will se one or two throws to get the one you want.
 
At the national team training camps (no, I wasn't on the national team, but I was good enough to be allowed on the mats on the camp) they tell you that during each randori you should be working on one thing (usually a combo or the like, but that depends upon your present skill level). Don't worry about winning or losing, that's for shia (competition) ... in randori I've thrown guys I could never throw in competition. In fact, the world class guys are often easy to throw in randori because they're working on some little detail of technique and couldn't care less about anything else - they've proven themselves in competition, and anyone silly enough to think that beating them in randori means anything is in for a world of surprise if they ever line up against them in competition.

Take a throw (say you're working on uchimata), and during randori play with ways of setting it up (ouchigari to uchimata, different grips, different movement ... try to catch them moving to each side etc). Concentrate on your technique, don't worry about being thrown yourself (ie don't be defensive, you're working on your offense here, right?). The biggest mistake beginners make is treating randori like shia - in randori you're working on your timing and technique, you're learning to succeed at one little thing at a time. If your partner throws you a thousand times, but you get off five good techniques its a successsful randori.

Do the same throw until you get it right ... it might takes months or even years, but keep at it. Once you can get off a throw under a hundred different circumstances, add a new one.

I should add that sometimes you have in class shia (competition), and you should treat that the same as a regular competition, doing whatever it takes to win. But in a good club you'll be doing more randori than shia ... remember the difference. It'll make a huge difference in your judo in a year's time.
 
I've only been practising Judo since October so i'm not the most experianced, but when i throw my nices throws or sweaps, then i don't think it just comes, when i think 'Oh my god, i've too do something now i got to throw him, i'll just do osoto gari' then i fail.
 
I don't remember the combos themselves, but I remember these two rules.

1) make you rely on one leg, then take that away-- either by throwing your center of balance outside of your foot, or by making the foot not touch the ground anymore.

2) if a sweep doesn't work one way, I'll reverse the sweep since I know you've probably off-balanced yourself the other way.
 
Thanks guys.

I know that I am kind of that in between stage as everyone has says. I just wanted to make sure that from now on, I am specifically working toward getting to the next level.

Very good advice in this thread. Thanks for the tips.
 
My advice might not help you, because we're about at the same level. Basically I think "attack attack attack" and if you open up, I use my good throws. I don't want you using your good throws, so I have to make you defend rather than attack. I do try combos like ouchi to kouchi, ouchi to seoinage, etc...

This is ironic, because in shiai I am a counter thrower a lot. I think that's why Eug doesn't like me being a counter thrower, because that isn't a good long term strategy. Although sometimes I try to push the pace so you think "he will eventually get me" and you try a throw, and I counter it. Then again, we are pretty even (though I think you have an advantage right now).
 
Being a counter thrower isn't necessarily a bad thing. But if you always are reacting to what your opponent is doing, it makes it hard to improve.
 
Balto said:
Do you just tell yourself "I am doing ouchi gari to uchi mata, no matter what" and just do that 100%?
Click to expand...

Pretty much this ^^^^^^^^^^ in my case.

But I start earlier than that:

When I walk out to meet my opponent I ALWAYS hunch over and defend any sudden shoot. I approach like a wrestler.

I then ALWAYS go after a very specific grip. If they defend well and I end up with a different grip, I fake something and then try to get back to my grip. I always try to get their right collar with my left hand, and then throw my right arm over their back.

From this very specific position, I have a series of throws: uchimata, soto maki komi, osoto, ouchi, sumi gaeshi, maybe sasae.

That's it.

I have other throws from other grips, but the above is what I go for over and over again, just because it's super comfortable for me.

Boring I know, and I'm pretty sure my randori partners get annoyed by it, but...it works.
 
If you've ever watched any International Judo footage Balto, then you have seen that most of those guys have a "go to" gripping strategy, and specific throws off of that grip.
If you train something over and over again, you will get good at it.
I know you didn't start this thread to hear preaching, but I'd like to throw some ideas your way.

The first idea is to work on what you feel is a dominate grip. Do you have that yet? Do you ever just feel suddenly very comfortable when you get a certain grip? Could be anything: two collar grip, two sleeve grip, the over-the-shoulder belt grab grip, the standard left or right grip, the yama arashi grip...you get the idea.
Maybe for a couple months when you do randori work on nothing more than attaining a specific grip for that session. Don't pass up an obvious throw if it's there, but work more for dominance with your grip. See if you can freeze up your partner or get them to move (maybe their counter attempt) in a way that is favorable for your throw.

Next pick your main throw. It should come naturally from the gripping strategy you develop. There's a good change it will be a counter to people trying to get away from or counter your grip set up, which is why your grip technique should be very strong and dominate: cause people to move in ways they don't really want to.

My personal experience to this point (and I've got a loooong way to go) is that the opponent's actions are predictable when a dominate grip is in place, that is, they've only got a certain number of things that they can do to counter and / or escape your suppressive gripping.

I'll use the over the shoulder grip as my example, because it's what I'm familiar with.
khaba_09_k.jpg


and this:

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The opponent gets frustrated by this grip and sees a few opportunities. The most obvious it to push forward and go for a leg or a pick up (like te guruma). The throwers response is sumi gaeshi or uchimata or even a maki komi.
The opponent may try to pull away: ouchi gari or kouchi gari.
If the try moving laterally then osoto is there and maybe sasae tsuri komi ashi.

I get picked up a lot, but more often than not, if I hook the leg with an ouchi I land on top, and get the score and dominate position.

The gripping strategy approach may not work for you, and there's certainly a lot of more skilled judoka than me who reject grip work as essential to judo. Just throwing out what's been working for me.
 
You basically described most Judoka. Even at the Olympic level most Judoka have 3-5 "bread and butter" throws, and they are trying to set you up for on of those throws.
 
I must videotape myself sometiems because I never "think" when I do randori or atleast I almost never remember it. heck I don't even know what techniques I use and ask my sensei all the time

Unless I delibrately fake a move to get a combo.
 
PhxJudoJujitsu said:
You basically described most Judoka. Even at the Olympic level most Judoka have 3-5 "bread and butter" throws, and they are trying to set you up for on of those throws.
Click to expand...

So what do you think? Is this a good approach for Balto also? I think so, but I'm curious about your opinion.
 
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