Judges FINALLY understanding grappling?

[gocubs1815]

I'm gonna preface this by saying I'm a BJJ Blue Belt, and preferred to play guard a lot when I trained.

After watching the Randa Markos-Tecia Torres fight just now (had to OnDemand it because of work this morning) I feel any judge who thought Torres won that 3rd round I was on crack, despite what Gil and Tecia said afterward.

There has always been an wrestling bias in MMA where the rules favor them which have almost made bottom and guard players extinct (coincidently, see Pettis-Guida to prove my point). It was always thought that takedowns "score points" and win rounds.

But after that fight last nighty on TUF you was a decent player from the bottom win a round from the ground, but you also saw the missing piece the judges have been forgetting all this time: GUARD PASSING!

Markos didn't win that fight because she took Torres down repeatedly (a la Rashad-T.Silva or Ben Askren), she won 2 and 3 because she took her down AND passed he guard to mount!

I've played around with the idea gaining mount should score you like a 10-8 round, the same way a knock down does in boxing. If anyone has ever competed in BJJ, you know that as you climb the ladder from bottom to guard to sweep to guard pass to mount you score more points as you go. THAT's a facet that's lost with watered down MMA, where all these wrestlers who learn to strike, who don't just learn ground n' pound, but also Lay n' pray and wall n' stall.

Thank GOD Markos knew that to win wasn't just to convince the judges with takedowns, but to impress the judges with guard passing and gaining position. THATS why all 3 judges scored the 3rd in favor of the #14 seed.

 

[adamsilva]

Such words. Many sentences. Wow.

 

[Edmond Rousey]

I'm gonna preface this by saying I'm a BJJ Blue Belt, and preferred to play guard a lot when I trained.

After watching the Randa Markos-Tecia Torres fight just now (had to OnDemand it because of work this morning) I feel any judge who thought Torres won that 3rd round I was on crack, despite what Gil and Tecia said afterward.

There has always been an wrestling bias in MMA where the rules favor them which have almost made bottom and guard players extinct (coincidently, see Pettis-Guida to prove my point). It was always thought that takedowns "score points" and win rounds.

But after that fight last nighty on TUF you was a decent player from the bottom win a round from the ground, but you also saw the missing piece the judges have been forgetting all this time: GUARD PASSING!

Markos didn't win that fight because she took Torres down repeatedly (a la Rashad-T.Silva or Ben Askren), she won 2 and 3 because she took her down AND passed he guard to mount!

I've played around with the idea gaining mount should score you like a 10-8 round, the same way a knock down does in boxing. If anyone has ever competed in BJJ, you know that as you climb the ladder from bottom to guard to sweep to guard pass to mount you score more points as you go. THAT's a facet that's lost with watered down MMA, where all these wrestlers who learn to strike, who don't just learn ground n' pound, but also Lay n' pray and wall n' stall.

Thank GOD Markos knew that to win wasn't just to convince the judges with takedowns, but to impress the judges with guard passing and gaining position. THATS why all 3 judges scored the 3rd in favor of the #14 seed.

That was only an exhibition match.

 

[johplin6]

Are you a good judge?

 

[Jackpot]

Thanks god you are not a judge, why do you want to give 10-8 to a full mount and compare it to a knockdown in boxing ?

A knockdown is actually damage, full mount is a position gained to do heavy damage, if you dont do anything with it its totally useless. The goal of the position is to do dmg, not score points. Rules are already wrestler friendly, that would be just to much.

 

[grimballer]

I never understand ppl complaining about tds scoring points, but then want to give points for passing?

How's passing worth points if tds aren't?

Fight starts on the feet n by td your opponent you dictate where the fight should take place.

If your argument is it shouldn't score any points cause there's no damage done, then how's passing any different?

In that case passing should lead to damage. GNP or subs.

Even with subs, it has to be deep n obviously painful.

Just attempting a sub shouldn't score any points

 

[Jackpot]

But I agree that we need to get rid of lay&pray, but giving easy 10-8 rounds for gaining a position is stupid and would make a lot of fights end in a draw.

 

[masterofthetap]

Such words. Many sentences. Wow.

I thought the same thing... hey look, a shiny thing...

 

[johplin6]

But I agree that we need to get rid of lay&pray, but giving easy 10-8 rounds for gaining a position is stupid and would make a lot of fights end in a draw.

Lay and Pray will never become illegal. Even if it was illegal, fighters would still do it. What are we going to do, deduct a point everytime?

 

[OriginMMA]

I agree with everything you said except mount being 10-8.

 

[DrDangles]

IMO:

TDs score points, but a clean right hand to the face for me does more to score on its own than a TD. TDs have value because they give you a future positional advantage, while a right hand doesnt.

But to capitalize on the positional advantage a TD gives you need to do one of 2 things:
1. Strikes from the top
2. Work for subs.

Passing guard contributes toward the 2nd ans it advances position making a sub more likely.

 

[Scythe]

The suggestion that gaining mount is automatically worth 10-8 is about as bad as anything you're complaining about. Event-based scoring doesn't work for MMA.

And you can't really be certain why the judges gave Markos the last round, but it wasn't that surprising. She won the war of takedowns, she gained mount, she was more aggressive, and Tecia didn't do very much.

 

[Psychojoe86]

TS has a good point about dominant positions. I believe he is also saying gaining mount is similar to scoring 10-8 but not that it should actually be scored that way. Just a comparison.

 

[Jackpot]

So you get picked a part on the feet for 4:45 minutes, last 15 seconds your opponent slips/trips....you end up on top full mount 10-8 round gg fight won.

 

[lowsingle]

takedowns score points in bjj

if i take someone down in bjj and they fail to do anyrhing from bottom, i win

idk why people say bjj fighters shouldnt lose points for takedowns in mma, when it comes from their sport as well

its not just wrestling. bjj, judo, sambo and any grappling art ive ever seen scores takedowns

 

[VicariousVice]

Mounting someone and giving a 10-8 would result in fighters point scoring more than they do now.

Sure you managed mount, but show us that you can do damage from that position. There have been fights where a guy can advance position the entire time but not do any significant damage.

 

[aRtFuL]

Just attempting a sub shouldn't score any points

Actually I'm of the opinion that good sub attempts should score points (it is not atm, but it should), while TD and and mount shouldn't.

This will encourage the fighters to attempt more subs in MMA and less lay and pray, while on ground.

 

[takerfamous]

Also as a bjj blue belt, if your coach doesn't tell you to stay on top during a competition match, go train somewhere else. Unless u finish from the bottom, or pulled guard, ur down 2-0 if you got taken down. If we make mma into bjj rules alot of these "lay and pray" MMA fights would be 6-0 decisions.

 

[devilrojo145]

IMO:

TDs score points, but a clean right hand to the face for me does more to score on its own than a TD. TDs have value because they give you a future positional advantage, while a right hand doesnt.

But to capitalize on the positional advantage a TD gives you need to do one of 2 things:
1. Strikes from the top
2. Work for subs.

Passing guard contributes toward the 2nd ans it advances position making a sub more likely.

TD is control. It is imposing your will. Imposing your will deserve points. Octagon control.

 

[devilrojo145]

Also as a bjj blue belt, if your coach doesn't tell you to stay on top during a competition match, go train somewhere else. Unless u finish from the bottom, or pulled guard, ur down 2-0 if you got taken down. If we make mma into bjj rules alot of these "lay and pray" MMA fights would be 6-0 decisions.

This x10