Judge: Apple must help US hack San Bernardino killer's phone

[chardog]

Well is not like the 4 digit password is secure, its the self-destruct mechanism that the phone has.

I'm no expert on apple devices and their firmware, but you would think it would be possible to clone the drive to a virtual machine and try as many combinations possible to crack the 4 digits.

I would side with apple in this case, do your own cracking, it sets a bad precedence.

 

[Fawlty]

If Apple leaves a "backdoor" for the Feds, it will be found out and published on Reddit within 2 hours. Have we learned nothing?

 

[m52nickerson]

I'm no expert on apple devices and their firmware, but you would think it would be possible to clone the drive to a virtual machine and try as many combinations possible to crack the 4 digits.

I would side with apple in this case, do your own cracking, it sets a bad precedence.

If you clone it the programing to delete the stored data is still going to be there. Apple can unlock this phone if it wanted without creating a backdoor. They could simply force an specifically written OS update to that phone, and that phone alone, to remove the data destruction, force and unlock, or send it the stored password. They don't want to do it because they fear the blow back from customers.

 

[SwamiLeoni]

...why?

To protect the rights of dead terrorists?

I honestly have no problem with Apple providing phone data from those scumbags to the gov. I do have a problem with the gov forcing apple to disclose its secrets. If the government wants Apple's IP, they either have to pay for it, ask nicely or they won't get it.

I'm not sure if the gov is forcing Apple to disclose their secrets though. But if they are, and that's the only way they want the data, I'm against it 110%.

 

[Forkfoot]

A corporation is protecting citizens from the government. My lefty head might explode.

 

[Falsedawn]

Just how "wiped clean" can it really be? Isn't it very hard to completely wipe a hard drive?

I should start a Mayberry thread about that, since I want to throw out an old laptop but I don't just want to dump it. Someone could take it out of the trash and steal my identity or some shit.

Hey man, finally my forte!

So just by using the "delete" function on a computer, all the machine does is remove the pointer to the data's location on the hard drive, but it is still physically there on the disk itself. Same with reformats, which just deletes and reallocates your partitions, but leaves the data intact. What you want to do is overwrite the data on the drive, so that each sector on the disk is overwritten. Download a program called Darik's Boot and Nuke (DBAN) and it can do it for you. You can also use a program called Eraser for individual files, because DBAN is whole disk.

One pass (over the hard drive) is generally still a sensitive drive and can be recovered by hardware (image analysis and microscopes and whatnot). The DOD process IIRC is 7 passes, which is enough to swerve off all but the most dedicated governments. If it's some illegal junk and you're looking for overkill, go Gutmann at 35 passes.

For a drive decommission, the DOD method should be good.

 

[ICHEERTHEBULL]

What I think is hilarious, is that there are numerous people in this forum that believe that the government is some all powerful, insidious group, when in actuality, they can't even break into an Apple phone.

They have probably read every text he made on that phone anyway, they can hear your calls and read your emails but they are obviously looking for convictions. All you calls, texts ect are stored for a time but most of what they have access to can't be used in evidence. Hence they need direct access to let's say, your hard drive, there they discover what they already had. It can now be used in evidence.

 

[KILL KILL]

Seems like they are all powerful if they can force a company to do their work for them.

They've been working to crack a single phone since the fall and have failed miserably. They can't extract data from a cell phone without involving the courts and you think they're all powerful? Tinfoil much?

 

[KILL KILL]

They have probably read every text he made on that phone anyway, they can hear your calls and read your emails but they are obviously looking for convictions. All you calls, texts ect are stored for a time but most of what they have access to can't be used in evidence. Hence they need direct access to let's say, your hard drive, there they discover what they already had. It can now be used in evidence.

Exactly. So there could be pertinent information required to help aid in further investigation. Seems reasonable to allow them access.

 

[Bloody Pulp]

They have probably read every text he made on that phone anyway, they can hear your calls and read your emails but they are obviously looking for convictions. All you calls, texts ect are stored for a time but most of what they have access to can't be used in evidence. Hence they need direct access to let's say, your hard drive, there they discover what they already had. It can now be used in evidence.

Nope.

"For all devices running iOS 8.0 and later versions, Apple will not perform iOS data extractions as data extraction tools are no longer effective. The files to be extracted are protected by an encryption key that is tied to the user’s passcode, which Apple does not possess."

http://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/legal-process-guidelines-us.pdf


Basically, iOS 8.0 renders even Apple unable get into your phone without your access code. If you're running an earlier version of iOS then they can still pull your info with a search warrant however.

 

[Bloody Pulp]

I've personally run into the issue several times in just the last year where we are certain there is evidence on someones phone but they refuse to provide the access code and Apple can't do a thing to help even with a search warrant.

 

[Bloody Pulp]

Anything you put up into the Cloud can still be gotten to but anything that is kept solely on the device itself is very secure.

 

[Fawlty]

Forcing a company to do R&D to aid an investigation...I don't like that at all.

 

[Byron Carter]

Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

 

[KILL KILL]

Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

Jesus Christ. No one is sacrificing liberty.

They are trying to obtain information within a criminal's phone, for which they have a warrant for in order to help an ongoing investigation. What liberties do you believe are being infringed upon in this particular instance?

 

[2DUM2TAP]

They've been working to crack a single phone since the fall and have failed miserably. They can't extract data from a cell phone without involving the courts and you think they're all powerful? Tinfoil much?

If the courts can force a public company to do the bidding of the government then yes. That's not tinfoil hat. I don't think there is a CT out there that I believe so that's not what I am arguing. I think they are just overstepping their boundaries by forcing a company to develop software for them that doesn't exist and I think it's naive to think once they have it that they won't use it to crack into some drug dealers phone to aid in arrests.

 

[Fawlty]

What liberties do you believe are being infringed upon in this particular instance?

Forcing a company to do research and development against their will to help the FBI collect evidence. It's one thing to turn over a phone or some technical data, but it's quite a step to force them to spend their own money and that of their shareholders to create a new technology.

 

[djacobox372]

I don't think the government should be allowed to force any law abiding person to work for them.

It would be one thing to subpoena information that apple already has, but in this case the government is asking apple to work for them--creating a new IOS operating system that turns off the "10 tries and your phones wiped" feature.

Of course the argument will come up, but what if there was a nuke in a city full of children? Well in that case the government should do what it needs to do by force for the greater good, AND those in government that approve the illegal action should be prosecuted after the fact. Going to jail for your country is no worse than taking a bullet for your country.

 

[Fawlty]

I don't think the government should be allowed to force any law abiding person to work for them.

It would be one thing to subpoena information that apple already has, but in this case the government is asking apple to work for them--creating a new IOS operating system that turns off the "10 tries and your phones wiped" feature.

And who gets the operating system after it's over? Does Apple have to hand over the capability to do firmware updates on their phones to the FBI? You can bet your ass they would fight to get that.

 

[KILL KILL]

For those that did not actually read the article, here are a few cliffs;

- the phone was designed where only the user with the proper passcode can access data.

- After 10 unsuccessful passcode attempts, the phone will automatically "self destruct" the data (whatever that means).

- The government is asking for a piece of software to directly upload to this particular phone.

- The judge ordered that the software must have some sort of an identifier, so that it can not be used on any other phone.

- Apple believes that if the "secrets" of this software get out, it puts other phones in danger.

- Again, however, the software will need to be uploaded directly to the phone. This means that the even if by some crazy chance, a hacker finds out the secret to said software, and by some chance is able to duplicate it, they would still need to be in direct possession of the phone before they could access info.