Joshua or Fury - who is greater currently based on common opponents and overall resume?

TheMaster

TheMaster

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For a long time it was considered to be Fury, but now I'm not so sure.
With Fury losing twice to Usyk including being battered from pillar to post in the first fight, being knocked on his ass and going to a split decision <6>against Ngannou who Joshua flatlined, and his back and forth trilogy with Wilder, Joshua's resume stacks up pretty well and is arguably as strong.

I also lean toward Joshua getting the KO if they fight at this stage.
 
Joshua took risks and didn’t avoid anyone! furys career is a lot of smoke and mirrors. Fury is the better boxer, and should’ve had a better career but he’s avoided challenges and it’s hurt his legacy. Because of this Joshua has a better resume, even though his career has been far shorter

So imo Joshua has had the better career, but mainly because fury was too risk averse most of his career. If they fought now I’d take Joshua by stoppage though not with huge confidence. I think fury has always seen this as a fight he ‘could’ lose which is why it hasn’t, and never will happen, even with the Saudis bankrolling it.
 
Jonny Ninja said:
Joshua took risks and didn’t avoid anyone! furys career is a lot of smoke and mirrors. Fury is the better boxer, and should’ve had a better career but he’s avoided challenges and it’s hurt his legacy. Because of this Joshua has a better resume, even though his career has been far shorter

So imo Joshua has had the better career, but mainly because fury was too risk averse most of his career. If they fought now I’d take Joshua by stoppage though not with huge confidence. I think fury has always seen this as a fight he ‘could’ lose which is why it hasn’t, and never will happen, even with the Saudis bankrolling it.
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Yes he did. He avoided Wilder like a motherfucker. 5 years that shit went on, then Fury was the one who fought him, after years out the ring and coming back from drug abuse and obesity. And it's easy for people NOW to say 'oh Wilder's shit, look how easily Parker dealt with him', whether that's true or not - nobody thought that back then. His all round boxing was always shit yes, but he was extremely feared and putting guys in coffins from single punches.
 
They're quite close, in terms of resume.

- Both beat Klitschko, Joshua more soundly, but he was an older Klitschko who'd had time out the ring

- Both fought and lost to Usyk twice, though Fury's first fight was a better showing than either of Joshua's/although the 2nd fight with Usyk, Joshua did quite well, and I even think an argument could be made for a draw or him winning that. And I can't stand Joshua, so I have every reason to watch it through biased eyes too. But, Fury's first fight with Usyk, rounds 4-7 was the most trouble I think Usyk has ever looked in, other than the Chisora fight funnily enough

- Both fought Wallin, who, is not really anybody but he's a contender, not shit; Fury fought him when he was more game... Yes Joshua beat him more easily but he had already beaten him like 3 times or something stupid in the amateurs, or twice, and he was Joshua's sparring partner. He knew him intimately; that was a tee-up for Joshua to look good

- Both beat Dillian Whyte, Fury much more easily; Whyte never for one moment looked in the fight or caused Fury the slighest bother, then Fury knocked him clean out with a beautiful uppercut, wheras he had Joshua in trouble and it was a war

Then... Fury has Chisora x 3, and even though Chisora may not be world-champ level, he gave Usyk - arguably his toughest fight - even Usyk himself says this, and is not an easy night for anyone... except Fury. Fury just played with him like cat food 3 times. He also has Wilder, when Wilder was in his prime and feared, and dangerous x 3.

Joshua has Parker, which is a good scalp and Andy Ruiz Jr but Ruiz Jr absolutely battered Joshua then Joshua won the rematch by essentially running around the ring for 12 rounds, and any time he engaged he was in trouble, so it's not a great win.

Due to the 3 Chisora wins, how easy the Whyte win was & the Wilder wins, I think Fury edges it.
 
Chaotic Progressor said:
Yes he did. He avoided Wilder like a motherfucker. 5 years that shit went on, then Fury was the one who fought him, after years out the ring and coming back from drug abuse and obesity. And it's easy for people NOW to say 'oh Wilder's shit, look how easily Parker dealt with him', whether that's true or not - nobody thought that back then. His all round boxing was always shit yes, but he was extremely feared and putting guys in coffins from single punches.
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this is a stupid take

Wilder was offered a LOT of money to fight Joshua and avoided the fight, Wilder was never serious about fighting Joshua and has never shown any desire to get the fight made, its well documented and he only fought Fury because he looke dlike absolute shite in his 2 comeback fights and was still massively overweight

lets not try and paint this incorrect picture again

as far as Fury v Joshua resume, its a real tough one, Fury has the bigger statement wins but Joshua has a better overall record

you also cant just ignore all of the other fighters Joshua has fought

Povetkin
Pulev
Parker
Takkam

Fury just avoided fighting so many guys on his way up as well, Price and Haye to name just 2
 
Chaotic Progressor said:
Yes he did. He avoided Wilder like a motherfucker. 5 years that shit went on, then Fury was the one who fought him, after years out the ring and coming back from drug abuse and obesity. And it's easy for people NOW to say 'oh Wilder's shit, look how easily Parker dealt with him', whether that's true or not - nobody thought that back then. His all round boxing was always shit yes, but he was extremely feared and putting guys in coffins from single punches.
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This all laughable nonsense! We all know the more factual story, it’s been discussed on here a million times, im not gonna waste my time in correcting you

Edit: pretty much what @treelo said
 
Wilder, the guy who avoided fighting anyone with a pulse for nearly 40 fights isn't at fault for the fight not happening. It was Joshua, a guy who fought everyone else there was to fight, bar Fury, who he did sign a contract to fight. Solid logic. Lol.
 
Chaotic Progressor said:
They're quite close, in terms of resume.

- Both beat Klitschko, Joshua more soundly, but he was an older Klitschko who'd had time out the ring

- Both fought and lost to Usyk twice, though Fury's first fight was a better showing than either of Joshua's/although the 2nd fight with Usyk, Joshua did quite well, and I even think an argument could be made for a draw or him winning that. And I can't stand Joshua, so I have every reason to watch it through biased eyes too. But, Fury's first fight with Usyk, rounds 4-7 was the most trouble I think Usyk has ever looked in, other than the Chisora fight funnily enough

- Both fought Wallin, who, is not really anybody but he's a contender, not shit; Fury fought him when he was more game... Yes Joshua beat him more easily but he had already beaten him like 3 times or something stupid in the amateurs, or twice, and he was Joshua's sparring partner. He knew him intimately; that was a tee-up for Joshua to look good

- Both beat Dillian Whyte, Fury much more easily; Whyte never for one moment looked in the fight or caused Fury the slighest bother, then Fury knocked him clean out with a beautiful uppercut, wheras he had Joshua in trouble and it was a war

Then... Fury has Chisora x 3, and even though Chisora may not be world-champ level, he gave Usyk - arguably his toughest fight - even Usyk himself says this, and is not an easy night for anyone... except Fury. Fury just played with him like cat food 3 times. He also has Wilder, when Wilder was in his prime and feared, and dangerous x 3.

Joshua has Parker, which is a good scalp and Andy Ruiz Jr but Ruiz Jr absolutely battered Joshua then Joshua won the rematch by essentially running around the ring for 12 rounds, and any time he engaged he was in trouble, so it's not a great win.

Due to the 3 Chisora wins, how easy the Whyte win was & the Wilder wins, I think Fury edges it.
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Can you imagine if both of them also fought a guy in his first two professional fights, and one of them got dropped and went to a split decision?
 
treelo said:
this is a stupid take

Wilder was offered a LOT of money to fight Joshua and avoided the fight, Wilder was never serious about fighting Joshua and has never shown any desire to get the fight made, its well documented and he only fought Fury because he looke dlike absolute shite in his 2 comeback fights and was still massively overweight

lets not try and paint this incorrect picture again

as far as Fury v Joshua resume, its a real tough one, Fury has the bigger statement wins but Joshua has a better overall record

you also cant just ignore all of the other fighters Joshua has fought

Povetkin
Pulev
Parker
Takkam

Fury just avoided fighting so many guys on his way up as well, Price and Haye to name just 2
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It's definitely interesting how the narrative has changed around this. Fury was riding the whole 'undefeated' train which allowed him to even want a 60-40 split in past negotiations with Joshua which just looks ridiculous now. The truth is his resume wasnt that great and has been built around the Wilder trilogy.
He needs Joshua now to cement a real legacy that will be remembered for years ahead but he is aware it could backfire if he gets sparked.
If he is feeling really brave he could even challenge new Dubois but again, it probably wouldn't end well for him at this point.
 
Joshua. Fury has the Wilder scalp, and you could argue that Joshua doesn't have anyone on that level, but Joshua has beaten the common opponents much easier than Fury.
 
Fury, his only loss is to the same guy Joshua lost to but Joshua lost to a couple of guys that my best guess is Fury would beat (but that's an assumption)

Also, Joshua's best win is against a Klitschko Fury had already defeated (and thus taken the lineal HW championship from)

Fury's best wins are Klitchko and Wilder.

I see no counterargument on how Joshua has the better legacy in any way or form. The only thing one can say for him is that when he is on, he is better at destroying lower opposition than Tyson, who sometimes seems to get himself into trouble with shittier opposition. But Tyson on the other hand always shined against the toughest tasks while Joshua tends to crumble.

Against Usyk both were pretty similar. Did well in both fights but got pretty battered in a specific spot in the first fight, then came back stronger, smarter, and in better shape for the second, but it still wasn't enough because Usyk adapted well to both.
 
I'd be rooting for Joshua but I'm pretty sure Fury would play with him. Joshua just doesn't have the movement to do catch Fury out. The Fury that fought Usyk seconds time round would cruise to an easy decision win against AJ imo.
 
BoxingMMA said:
Fury, his only loss is to the same guy Joshua lost to but Joshua lost to a couple of guys that my best guess is Fury would beat (but that's an assumption)
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Fury realistically lost to John McDermott in their first meeting. That was a gift decision. He never should've been considered undefeated before Usyk officially took his 0.
 
Kovalev's Man Bag said:
Fury realistically lost to John McDermott in their first meeting. That was a gift decision. He never should've been considered undefeated before Usyk officially took his 0.
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That's a slippery slope, though, because very few guys have undefeated records that can't be contested. Even Usyk has people saying he should have lost to Daniel. (Floyd has Castillo, Chavez had Whitaker, etc.) but Fury's fight was pretty controversial. At the very least, he won the rematch by stoppage.

Even with that "loss" I think Fury comes out on top when compared to Joshua. Bigger wins, fewer disastrous losses.

It's not that I see Fury as being much better, it's more like I can't bring myself to think Joshua is better than any relevant HW. He is the weakest, strong HW in my mind.
 
BoxingMMA said:
That's a slippery slope, though, because very few guys have undefeated records that can't be contested. Even Usyk has people saying he should have lost to Daniel. (Floyd has Castillo, Chavez had Whitaker, etc.) but Fury's fight was pretty controversial. At the very least, he won the rematch by stoppage.

Even with that "loss" I think Fury comes out on top when compared to Joshua. Bigger wins, fewer disastrous losses.

It's not that I see Fury as being much better, it's more like I can't bring myself to think Joshua is better than any relevant HW. He is the weakest, strong HW in my mind.
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i think his point was, John McDermott is a lot shitter opponent than Andy Ruiz to "lose" to

and while some of those fights you mentioned, there will always be people crying robbery, but lets face it, nobody, and i mean nobody thought Chavez got a draw against Whittaker...even probably Chavez himself, he got fucking battered
 
BoxingMMA said:
That's a slippery slope, though, because very few guys have undefeated records that can't be contested. Even Usyk has people saying he should have lost to Daniel. (Floyd has Castillo, Chavez had Whitaker, etc.) but Fury's fight was pretty controversial. At the very least, he won the rematch by stoppage.

Even with that "loss" I think Fury comes out on top when compared to Joshua. Bigger wins, fewer disastrous losses.

It's not that I see Fury as being much better, it's more like I can't bring myself to think Joshua is better than any relevant HW. He is the weakest, strong HW in my mind.
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The fundamental issue with the "Usyk lost to Daniel" argument is that it's impossible to know whether he would've gotten back up had the ref started counting. Many people, including myself and Hearn, thought that Usyk milked it. Secondly, the majority of the public thought that it was indeed low meaning the ref made the correct call. In Fury's case it's entirely cut & dry since most observers felt that McDermott should've gotten the nod in the first fight.
 
Fury clearly. Lost only to Usyk the best of this era in 2 close fights. Joshua meanwhile got KOED twice by guys that at the time were called cherrypicks. A couple of wins against 40 year olds like Klitschko and Povetkin wont change that. Fury was by all experts and bookmakers considered the best HW in the world. Also beat Wilder who now is getting laughed at, but for some time was considered Nr.2 or even Nr.1. Its easy to shit on a guy thats 40 year old and starts losing but Wilder was very very dangerous. Fury still underperformed though and could have been much more impressive.
 
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