Jose Aldo testing debacle detailed pt 1

[CrashStitches]

 

[CrashStitches]

... Shake it off, shake it off!!

 

[CrashStitches]

Please tell me more. Who and for what? Here is a list of fighters. List one that has failed a drug test for PEDs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_União_(mixed_martial_arts)

Oh and fuck you too you rude asshole. I did not call anyone names in here but you certainly got bent out of shape. Why is that mr armchair warrior? What upset you?

Here is a stronger list. Please do tell

www.sherdog.com/stats/fightfinder?association=Nova Uniao

Honestly not antagonizing here, and I haven't gotten very far in the thread yet, so don't hate me if you answered this by the time I catch up...but I just gotta ask what your thoughts are on Aldo fumbling the sample. "This cup is everything they've been making a big fuss about. I better handle it carefully." How does one fumble the sample after having previously broken the chain of contact on a prior sample? Is there precedent for this?

 

[brocas]

Errr way to twist reality.

The fact that the doping agency knew in advance they needed a DCO on site at the time of the sample and chose this option.
Fact that a DCO was not present at the time of the sample and did not turn up till after the federal cop was involved.
Fact that the visa was not correct (clearly states the rep needs to pay to amend the visa)
Fact that Aldo Cooperated throughout
Fact that with all of the above Andre had every right to wait for the DCO from the Brazilian commission to arrive but by then it was too late because of the balls up by the agent

Dude, you are obviously an intelligent poster and I can tell that when your heart isn't leading your head you are quite pragmatic and rational but you are now coming across as someone who is burying their head in the sand and refusing to believe that your guy may have done something wrong.

I took a few jabs at Aldo in my previous post and you are right to have pointed out that many of the things I have leveled at Aldo cannot be proven but I think that we are all now in a much better position to speculate given the new information.

Again I understand that you are a passionate fan and respect the fact that you are defending your countrymen but the fact that you lay 90% of the blame at the door of the tester who has detailed the series of events so as to paint a picture of the difficulties he faced while trying to do his job just goes to show you have a biased slant on the issue in my opinion.

Obviously we differ quite a bit on our perception of what took place so I will outline things that I consider to be facts below:
A certified tester showed up to the gym with all the legitimate paperwork and a active working Visa, a person from the gym claiming to be a police officer interfered with a process he had nothing to do with and threatened to detain a man simply doing his job on grounds which have since proved to be baseless.
None of us can say who is responsible for losing control of the sample, we weren't there but what we can say is that if this person claiming to be a police officer was able to mind his own business then the tester would have never lost control of the sample.

We can also get a pretty good gauge on how these events unfolded in this paragraph:
"19. Ben Mosier reported at 1:39 pm CDT to Chris Guinty that immigration control had been
dispatched to his location to escort him out of the country. Ben Mosier continued to explain to
present authorities that he had a valid work visa issued in 2012 (expiring 2022) from the
Brazilian consulate in Chicago. The federal police officer continued threatening him with arrest
and confiscation of his phone, and refused Ben access to his computer to demonstrate proof of
his work related documents from the Brazilian consulate. ."

Now, you seem to be of the opinion that Ben Mosier did not have the requisite paperwork but you should be able to see from this exchange that when the authorities showed up on the scene that Mr. Mosier provided a valid working visa yet despite this he was threatened with arrest and confiscation of his phone and denied access to a laptop to further prove his credentials.


Why deny him access to documents which further prove who he is, why threaten a man with arrest and confiscation on his personal belongings unless this is simply a delaying tactic?

More facts:
After a well publicized incident surrounding the initial test Jose Aldo was given the chance to supply a (at this stage) non random test the following morning at 9am.
He chose not to attend this test at the time he was supposed to and instead apparently chose to sort out his Visa (a far less pressing issue as peeing in a cup at 9am takes a short amount of time and leaves you with a full day to conduct other business.
When Jose was finally able to provide a sample having missed scheduled appointments you would have thought he would have been extra careful with his sample but no, the charade continues as Jose drops the first sample and then provides (speculation) a more dilute sample 45 mins later.

^ In my opinion these are facts that cannot be disputed and if anyone says that there is no cause for suspicion when the facts are examined they need to get their head checked.

You keep placing the blame on Mosier but all the evidence shows there was no issue with his paperwork, he was well within his rights at all times to take a sample and the only reason he could not was because of someone claiming to be a police officer stating that the paperwork was lacking, it wasn't and Mosier has been completely vindicated by all the relevant parties.

If you don't think Aldo is juicing, that's your opinion but stop blaming someone who acted in accordance with his jobs guidelines and the laws of the country he was in and start blaming the idiot cop who has made NU look like they are trying to hide something by interfering with something that had nothing to do with him and something he clearly had no qualifications to make a judgement on.

16. The local Brazilian DCO that was assigned to assist Ben Mosier and Drug Free Sport arrived on
site to help with the situation and indicated to Ben Mosier that he had done nothing wrong and
was authorized to conduct the test. The local DCO argued with Christiano Sampaio and the
federal authorities involved on their authority to complete the test as a Brazilian resident and
nationally certified DCO, however Sampio refused to let the local DCO (or Ben Mosier) proceed
with any testing despite their employment as a local doping control officer. It was reported only
a Brazilian MMA Athletic Commission DCO would be allowed to collect the sample."

 

[Danespina]

It's one thing to think Nova Uniao wasn't hiding anything, then another thing to think Aldo is completely innocent, but it's whole different thing to act like the information that has come out on this event is in no way giving cause to suspicion. Shaolin.

Yes. Like I said earlier, I'm surprised everyone can't agree, whether an Aldo fan or not, that at this very least the situation was shady.

 

[King of Fists]

Plot twist: this whole thing was secretly orchestrated by Conor's handlers so he has a steroid accusation excuse when he loses.

 

[The_Renaissance]

H20 & NaCl

Water and Salt to you and me..

Urine tests use urine which obviously takes on proteins, etc from the body, and testing urine will show steroids etc. Flushing the system through by either drinking vast amounts of water, or using saline drips will mean the resultant urine is in the body a much shorter amount of time and so will not take on as much. Its also possible to flush all traces of steroids etc out of the urine using such methods. Which is why diuretics are also used as masking agents. make you pee more, gets the evidence out of your system

the same way, if you are on steriods, tester knocks on the door first thing in the morning, always pee before he answers. You will notice that the first pee of the day is very dark, because its full of everything its gathered from the body. you really dont want that tested.

Compare that with pee after youve just drunk 3 litres of water. its gone through the system quicker, hasnt absorbed so much from the body.

So theres two methods, one is flushing, to get products out of the body, the other is hyrdrating when providing the sample to provide a more watery sample.

Aldo had opportunity to do both.

(And the fact his final sample was ph 7, and was very low for virtually everything it was tested for suggests it was a very hydrated sample he provided)

Yep and given that by the time he ACTUALLY gave a sample that was allowed to be submitted for testing, while being held by Aldo's cronies, Aldo had almost or exactly 48hrs with access to something this basic....

Imagine if he had something more advanced at hand to help with the task.

I can't shake the stink off this.

 

[CrashStitches]

I can't shake the stink off this.

And rightly so. As someone else pointed out, he likely should be facing two doping violations. Not because he's obviously doping, that's speculation, but because he blatantly benefitted from 48 hours of disruptions of every possible kind.

The thing is that now he's focused the spotlight directly on himself and his camp, so if he really is being naughty, he's used up any and all possible mulligans with this incredibly convenient debacle. If he misses any more tests for any reason whatsoever, he absolutely must be stripped, suspended, and fined. The world shits on MMA over dope scandals as it is, having a p4p great behaving in such an incredibly suspicious manner is yet another black mark on the sport.

 

[Gunny]

The more this topic gets hashed out, the worse Aldo looks.

 

[cooks1]

Lol at an off‐duty Brazilian federal police officer being there training, then confiscating passport and claiming the guy had an incorrect work visa. Sure, all police officer just break their training session, go check out a guy doing his job on a consenting fighter, have immediate knowledge on all the types of forms one must have in order to perform urine sample collecting and handling and threaten to arrest and deport the guy doing his job.

no comment on the other threats, various names and figures being deployed and Aldo spilling his sample. Highly orchestrated.

Brasil's gonna Brasil.

Dollars to doughnuts the off duty officer was Paulo Thiago.

 

[Metal_Daze]

 

[Danespina]

Oh gosh. Funny.

 

[CrashStitches]

"Well hello there my name is Officer Alves and I just happen to be here training because I train UFC bro and you know I'm looking at your visa, That you used to get into this country without any problems but as a UFC trained police officer I know all about visas and I just happened to notice that you don't have the appropriate paperwork for somebody was here to do a Pee test so I have to detain you now."


A likely story. Stuff like this happens all the time, nothing to see here....

I don't know if this is my favorite post ever, but it's fucking brilliant.

 

[raaju]

if i were one of the very few clean fighters in this sport, i would gladly piss in a hundred cups for every collector who would knock on my door. legit visa or not, let them know. i'd happily piss on their hands, piss in their pockets, i'd piss everywhere.

 

[MuffinGod11]

Instead of twisting, turning and doing the most incredible mental gymnastics, go and "punish" Aldo and his team with more testing, go to Brazil, with the proper work visa and everything and do all the tests, blood and piss. They only did 1 test, and they didn't had the proper paperwork in order.

 

[ShaolinSubzz]

Honestly not antagonizing here, and I haven't gotten very far in the thread yet, so don't hate me if you answered this by the time I catch up...but I just gotta ask what your thoughts are on Aldo fumbling the sample. "This cup is everything they've been making a big fuss about. I better handle it carefully." How does one fumble the sample after having previously broken the chain of contact on a prior sample? Is there precedent for this?

I think there is a lot about this that is fishy but given the teams stance on PEDs which has been twisted by the media and anti-Nova Uniao fans on forums etc - I think you have to give the benefit of the doubt here.

1. I think the cop getting involved and immigration etc IS DODGY. But not for the reasons most people think. I think for what ever reason there was a lot of dislike and distaste for Ben Mosier during this process and the cop decided to antagonise him, make his life difficult and management allows this to happen for the same reasons. Sure it could be to avoid the test but everything indicates the opposite. They handed over the piss. Ben Mosier was without a DCO present (illegal) and without the correct paperwork (according to immigration official)

2. Andres stance on PEDs. The initial interview were he said PEDs make for better fights was a true statement taken out of context. He stated everything fans on here think. PEDs effect fights. But prior to this statement (and now public knowledge after Schaubs stupid comments and his reply) he had requested the UFC test blood and urine for Aldo and Conor everyday at his expense. People hating on Andre are just haters or too easily misled by out of context translations.

3. Ben Mosier is 100% the problem in all of this.
a) He was instructed before flying to Brazil that he needed a DCO present. (We can allow him for believing he had the correct paperwork/visa - although instead of relying on a 2012 visa request he should have double checked)
b) He contacts the fighters management the evening he lands in Brazil with zero chance of getting a sample that day - and even if so the heads up is already there.
c) He arranges the time of the test in advance instead of attending the gym and awaiting his subject ensuring a surprise test
d) He has no DCO present and his paperwork IS NOT in order

So yes I think its fucked up what transpired but I think there is more to it. We have one side here, a report which fails to spell Pederneiras's name correctly throughout AND is from the perspective of Mosier who is incompetant at best. It also clearly states the requirements they knew would make the process legal.

Then you have the history of NU as a team. Zero PED test failures in high level competition except diuretics for a ridiculous weight cut to make TUF two weight classes below the weight of the fighter - who since signed to the UFC. You also have their stance on the subject of PEDS stated again and again by all of those involved. 100% against it whatever you think of the Andre interview. Then you have the champs record and integrity. A man not willing to sell out to Reebok, not interested in money but in his Legacy and with no failed tests throughout competiton

 

[ShaolinSubzz]

Brocas and Jozo Sha - thanks for being stand up dudes. We differ on opinion here but you guys are good peeps