Jon's legacy

[Tsuli]

There are two ways of looking at the career of Jon 'Bones' Jones.

The first is that he went through his entire career essentially undefeated, leaving a trail of great fighters crumpled in defeat.

The second is that the first part of his career is blighted by PED use and eye pokes, the second part by gifted decisions, and the third by ducking elite competition, all set against the backdrop of a string of indiscretions in his personal life.

Both of these extremes are to a large extent valid. But when you reflect on the career of Jon Jones and his legacy, which view will loom larger in your mind? Or are the two elements equally present in your mind?

 

[ICHEERTHEBULL]

Been stripped of more world titles then anyone in combat sports history

 

[loisestrad]

What looms in my mind is that Jones is the GOAT. That's the first part of what's looming in my mind. The second part of the first part is that jones is the GOAT. The second part of the third part is that Jones is the GOAT.

I'm not sure what the second part is, but the first part of the second part is probably that Jones is the GOAT. I wasn't really sure about that second part of the second part, but I guess Jones is the GOAT.

Edit: forgot the first part of the third part. Sorry about that.

 

[Dionysian]

You forgot the actual reason for the second option: more than being about his "personal life" the actual story was it being the most doctored career in UFC history (2nd only only to Conor).

The delegitimization of an entire drug regime (USADA). Entire events moved to placate that cheating (Gus 2). Dana actually publicly lobbying to change fight records so he could fraudulently market a "0" that wasn't actually in Jon's record. Fixed fights (take your pick of the weird UD win here). Half a decade of not having a single fight that should have even been sanctioned in a non-circus org (vs white belt grappler fresh off loss being exposed by another kickboxer in a kickboxing-only-doctored career + retired old man fresh off loss)... and both of them were for the "undisputed" HW belt by the way lol. The most "bullet point posting" apparent PR campaign ever on social media (4-5 accounts on Sherdog these past few years spamming the 2-3 dumbass Jon Jones bullet points endlessly). All that corruption and degradation of an entire organization SOLELY because Dana was insecure about a portion of fan sentiment MAYBE thinking the GOAT was a non-UFC Russian guy who retired many years ago... so the compensation went overtime marketing their best (active) alternate candidate through overt corruption over the last five years... ruining the integrity of the whole circus organization in the process

On the upside, Jon (along with Conor) was fantastic to highlight this sport is not legit / it is corrupt and fixed and should be mocked. So at least that blatant corruption for years on end helped to wake up fans to this circus.

 

[Marko Polo]

What looms in my mind is that Jones is the GOAT. That's the first part of what's looming in my mind. The second part of the first part is that jones is the GOAT. The second part of the third part is that Jones is the GOAT.

I'm not sure what the second part is, but the first part of the second part is probably that Jones is the GOAT. I wasn't really sure about that second part of the second part, but I guess Jones is the GOAT.

Edit: forgot the first part of the third part. Sorry about that.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

If he retires now he probably is the GOAT still, there are just a fair few unfortunate asterisks there. The ridiculous HW title "reign" and stuff like the Reyes fight will always come up when Jons career is discussed.

 

[don't ask]

Jon had so many rules changed, both formally and informally, to allowed his bullshit (which ranges from rampant cheating to manufacturing a HW legacy at the expense of the entire division) that he's one of the few fighters we can say changed the entire sport. But not for the better.

His legacy was full of question marks as he was making it and now that we see it end in such a cowardly, corrupt and absurd way, I'm happy to say that the majority of fans are properly assessing it as rubbish.

I look forward to the next avalanche of cascading bullshit Dana White is going to oversee.

 

[loisestrad]

changed the entire sport for the better.

Completely aggree

 

[don't ask]

Completely aggree

Now you're just being deliberately stupid.

 

[loisestrad]

Now you're just being deliberately stupid.

Thanks.

 

[MaulingMyClown]

Sucks to say but I think of him as a piece of shit human being...probably the GOAT when it comes to fighting although the PEDs do stick in mind...the eye pokes don't really enter into things in my mind but this shit with Tom is gonna weigh heavily as well. I don't care that he doesn't fight Tom, but if that was his decision he should have just retired a year ago.

 

[Marko Polo]

Thanks.

I think if you’re a fan of Jon you would feel like the forum isn’t a very pleasant place at the min. I’m not gonna try to disparage Jon’s past performances and invalidate you as a fan, it’s normal to be a fan of him, but the way he’s acting now and in the last few years is a joke. He’s acted like a child at the expense of us fans and other fighters, and the UFC for that matter

 

[jsbx45]

His legacy is a mixture of greatness, excitement, belligerence,, cheating, bad behavior and of late, mocking fans and ducking elite competition. Problem for Jon is, you're remembered most for the last things you do.

 

[muaythaibeast]

If you fail drugs test, then you leave no legacy at all. We'll never know what you would have been if you'd played by the same rules as everyone else.
He beat some genuinely elite guys between 2011 and 2016 in Shogun, Machida and Cormier, and the Belfort win is underrated.
The last half of his career has been a bit of a joke really. Gift decision against Reyes, what should have been a loss against Cormier, a title defense against a guy who hadn't been ranked for almost 2 years due to inactivity, in a division where the two of them had a combined one win in the division over active fighters.
Probably his only high point in the past 5 years is the Gane win, which at least is a win over a genuine heavyweight contender.

 

[Bradillac]

Full of cheating, ducking, and preferential treatment. Shouldn't be on any serious GOAT lists without a major asterisk next to his name.

 

[Skarsgard]

There's a third way of looking at it.
He was an unbelievably talented fighter with a controversial career tainted with fouls, PED abuse, and controversial decisions. Even without the fouls and decisions, he would still undoubtedly have a top five career at 205.
We can't know how much the PEDs helped him because we don't know how much his body responded to them. I've known dudes who had better results on low dose TRT than others blasting Tren and Deca.

 

[Marko Polo]

You forgot the actual reason for the second option: more than being about his "personal life" the actual story was it being the most doctored career in UFC history (2nd only only to Conor).

The delegitimization of an entire drug regime (USADA). Entire events moved to placate that cheating (Gus 2). Dana actually publicly lobbying to change fight records so he could fraudulently market a "0" that wasn't actually in Jon's record. Fixed fights (take your pick of the weird UD win here). Half a decade of not having a single fight that should have even been sanctioned in a non-circus org (vs white belt grappler fresh off loss being exposed by another kickboxer in a kickboxing-only-doctored career + retired old man fresh off loss)... and both of them were for the "undisputed" HW belt by the way lol. The most "bullet point posting" apparent PR campaign ever on social media (4-5 accounts on Sherdog these past few years spamming the 2-3 dumbass Jon Jones bullet points endlessly). All that corruption and degradation of an entire organization SOLELY because Dana was insecure about a portion of fan sentiment MAYBE thinking the GOAT was a non-UFC Russian guy who retired many years ago... so the compensation went overtime marketing their best (active) alternate candidate through overt corruption over the last five years... ruining the integrity of the whole circus organization in the process

On the upside, Jon (along with Conor) was fantastic to highlight this sport is not legit / it is corrupt and fixed and should be mocked. So at least that blatant corruption for years on end helped to wake up fans to this circus.

I share your pain in these words. It’s been fucking weird watching this all unfold in real time, watching a company seemingly hell bent on ruining its brand even though they have a guy waiting in Aspinall who would be a MEGA star right now if they just operated honestly and gave him his shot years ago.

 

[Captain Herb]

• Cheat
• Duck
• POS

 

[HHJ]

We can't know how much the PEDs helped him because we don't know how much his body responded to them. I've known dudes who had better results on low dose TRT than others blasting Tren and Deca.

Oh gimme a fuckin break.

So anyone on roids should get a pass.

"We just have no idea how it helped them, if it did at all!"

 

[Skarsgard]

Oh gimme a fuckin break.

So anyone on roids should get a pass.

"We just have no idea how it helped them, if it did at all!"

Not at all. I'm just not willing to say "He'd be a can without the PEDs!" They helped. We just don't know if they helped him to the degree that testosterone helped guys like Hendo and Vitor.