Jones Weakness/Holes
- Thread starter genecop
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2010
- Messages
- 18,650
- Reaction score
- 9,175
This is the first fight I can recall him backing up for half of the fight. He doesn't seem to like pressure but he could then clinch and DC couldn't do a lot with it mostly because of the height.
He landed some great uppercuts in the clinch but it was was too tight to get a whole lot of momentum.
It looks like you'll just need to have a similar reach to Jones and try to pick him apart at a distance or be as tall or taller than he is to punish him in the clinch.
There just isn't a blueprint for the guy it seems like there was Anderson or Machida.
He landed some great uppercuts in the clinch but it was was too tight to get a whole lot of momentum.
It looks like you'll just need to have a similar reach to Jones and try to pick him apart at a distance or be as tall or taller than he is to punish him in the clinch.
There just isn't a blueprint for the guy it seems like there was Anderson or Machida.
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2014
- Messages
- 1,080
- Reaction score
- 5
lol if anybody had all those thigs he would be the undisputable goat
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2011
- Messages
- 9,551
- Reaction score
- 431
The Cormier fight exposed a lot of things to me so I went through a lot of tape this morning with fresh eyes. Jon has quite a few bad habits that leave openings to capitalize on.
First you need to understand why he fights the way he does. Everyone understands that he has a massive wingspan. People are quick to cry how unfair and insurmountable of an attribute this is but they don't understand the drawbacks. Not only does Jon have a wide torso but he has extremely long arms. I train and his wingspan exceeds my own 80.5" wingspan by 4". Mine is still long enough to understand the problems he faces. With that reach you are automatically at a disadvantage in midrange fighting. This leaves you feeling like you constantly have to work to keep the opponent at a range where you can "work." Also, since his arms are so long several things will be dictated. His arms have to travel back much further than someone with shorter arms to protect his face. His crosses will be much harder to disguise, they will literally be seen coming from miles away. It also places more torque on the shoulder increasing fatigue and decreasing volume. He already is a victim of these. Not only is he slow to return from punches he tends to bring them back near his pec. If you watch the tape you will also see that he misses a LOT with his crosses and uppercuts.
He compensates by:
Using his short jabbing kicks to the knees, thighs, and shins.
Not really using a jab but extending his arms out to the eyes or forehead to keep the opponent at distance.
Playing "pattycake" a sort of mini jabbing with his reach extended.
This does several things for him. They require less energy than a jab but keeps the opponent at bay. They require less commitment than a punch so he doesn't have to get back to a protective position. From there he can't usually be hit in the face or kicked in the head or body.
Problems with this:
When someone has a similar wingspan t doesn't work as well. See Gustafsson fight.
A note his arm still takes too long to return from a missed cross and he's punished with a two piece combo uppercut and sort of a shovel hook which hurt him.
His lead leg is still vulnerable to attacks. At one point in the Cormier fight he had his arm extended hand on Cormier's head and Dan was still able to kick him in the lead leg. Glover was able to land a kick straight up the middle from this range. Rampage kicked him from this range. The biggest explotation of this was from Machida. He not only kicked Jon from arm extension range but threw the same jabbing low kick to Jons shin that Jon loves to use. This exposed another flaw. Jon reacts poorly to attacks on his lead leg. He immediately moves it back without compensation with his back leg. When Lyoto jabbed his shin he moved his two feet together a no no in any discipline leaving him in a poor state to react or move. Which brings up more flaws.
He has shown himself incapable of mounting any offense when moving back, not only that he moves back in a straight line often with his arm extended. Many times he ducks his head very low also leaving his lead leg still exposed.
Someone brought up a good point in another thread about his extended arms. No one has used hand trapping with him. The hand trap can be used to make him react. From how he compensates you can either kick to the body or opposite side of the head. The most effective would be the lead leg causing him to make the mistakes above. When he moves back in a straight line you attack the lead leg again. He tends to reach down with his lead hand also creating an opening there.
The thing Lyoto did well was to stay out of a distance where Jon could work. You can't headhunt him with his arm extended but you can attack his leg and when he responds move out of range so he can't attack you.
When Jon gets hit he is in midrange and if he is not backing up to reset then he is ducking his head down. Open for a front kick right up the middle. Again if you watch the tape you'll notice how often this bad habit of his appears.
Another problem I see from him is the way he goes for takedowns at times. He will duck while driving forwardand go for the over under. The problem with this is that the opponent also has the over under and they also have Jon's momentum. He missed an outside trip against Lyoto and hung there in over unders for close to 2 seconds. A lateral drop or worse the same outside trip he likes to do is extremely viable from this position.
I think that the person who would give him the most trouble is a Southpaw. Now hear me out, Lyoto had some of the best success against Jon on the feet but he didn't use any of the tactics I listed above. A Southpaw is better positioned to use the handtrap since their lead hands are right next to each other. For those of you saying that there is a threat of takedown go watch the fights. He rarely even defends attacks to his lead legs. He caught Cormier from Southpaw throwing a Body kick that he did not set up. Another thing, he likes to fight from Southpaw from time to time but it is obvious he is not as adept from this position. This time he exposes his much more valuable rear leg as his lead leg for attack, knee hyperextension, etc. With proper setup he's asking for a toekick ala Machida.
He has smartly compensated for his infighting by using elbows and throwing shorter less powerful hooks. The Cormier fight still exposed how apt he is to turtle up when engaged in a firefight in this position. A teep to the body is an option again forcing him backwards likely exacerbating his bad habits. Knees are on the risky side. A better option when he plays ostrich is to break laterally and try to get an open look at his head.
I will reiterate that a Southpaw or someone very comfortable fighting Southpaw pose the beggest problems for him on the fight. That is besides Alexander. The horrible thing is that there's only 1 Southpaw in the top 20 and 1 Orthodox fighter who has shown proficiency from Southpaw and I think he may be 21 or so.
I know there's more that I can't remember and I may update.
First you need to understand why he fights the way he does. Everyone understands that he has a massive wingspan. People are quick to cry how unfair and insurmountable of an attribute this is but they don't understand the drawbacks. Not only does Jon have a wide torso but he has extremely long arms. I train and his wingspan exceeds my own 80.5" wingspan by 4". Mine is still long enough to understand the problems he faces. With that reach you are automatically at a disadvantage in midrange fighting. This leaves you feeling like you constantly have to work to keep the opponent at a range where you can "work." Also, since his arms are so long several things will be dictated. His arms have to travel back much further than someone with shorter arms to protect his face. His crosses will be much harder to disguise, they will literally be seen coming from miles away. It also places more torque on the shoulder increasing fatigue and decreasing volume. He already is a victim of these. Not only is he slow to return from punches he tends to bring them back near his pec. If you watch the tape you will also see that he misses a LOT with his crosses and uppercuts.
He compensates by:
Using his short jabbing kicks to the knees, thighs, and shins.
Not really using a jab but extending his arms out to the eyes or forehead to keep the opponent at distance.
Playing "pattycake" a sort of mini jabbing with his reach extended.
This does several things for him. They require less energy than a jab but keeps the opponent at bay. They require less commitment than a punch so he doesn't have to get back to a protective position. From there he can't usually be hit in the face or kicked in the head or body.
Problems with this:
When someone has a similar wingspan t doesn't work as well. See Gustafsson fight.
A note his arm still takes too long to return from a missed cross and he's punished with a two piece combo uppercut and sort of a shovel hook which hurt him.
His lead leg is still vulnerable to attacks. At one point in the Cormier fight he had his arm extended hand on Cormier's head and Dan was still able to kick him in the lead leg. Glover was able to land a kick straight up the middle from this range. Rampage kicked him from this range. The biggest explotation of this was from Machida. He not only kicked Jon from arm extension range but threw the same jabbing low kick to Jons shin that Jon loves to use. This exposed another flaw. Jon reacts poorly to attacks on his lead leg. He immediately moves it back without compensation with his back leg. When Lyoto jabbed his shin he moved his two feet together a no no in any discipline leaving him in a poor state to react or move. Which brings up more flaws.
He has shown himself incapable of mounting any offense when moving back, not only that he moves back in a straight line often with his arm extended. Many times he ducks his head very low also leaving his lead leg still exposed.
Someone brought up a good point in another thread about his extended arms. No one has used hand trapping with him. The hand trap can be used to make him react. From how he compensates you can either kick to the body or opposite side of the head. The most effective would be the lead leg causing him to make the mistakes above. When he moves back in a straight line you attack the lead leg again. He tends to reach down with his lead hand also creating an opening there.
The thing Lyoto did well was to stay out of a distance where Jon could work. You can't headhunt him with his arm extended but you can attack his leg and when he responds move out of range so he can't attack you.
When Jon gets hit he is in midrange and if he is not backing up to reset then he is ducking his head down. Open for a front kick right up the middle. Again if you watch the tape you'll notice how often this bad habit of his appears.
Another problem I see from him is the way he goes for takedowns at times. He will duck while driving forwardand go for the over under. The problem with this is that the opponent also has the over under and they also have Jon's momentum. He missed an outside trip against Lyoto and hung there in over unders for close to 2 seconds. A lateral drop or worse the same outside trip he likes to do is extremely viable from this position.
I think that the person who would give him the most trouble is a Southpaw. Now hear me out, Lyoto had some of the best success against Jon on the feet but he didn't use any of the tactics I listed above. A Southpaw is better positioned to use the handtrap since their lead hands are right next to each other. For those of you saying that there is a threat of takedown go watch the fights. He rarely even defends attacks to his lead legs. He caught Cormier from Southpaw throwing a Body kick that he did not set up. Another thing, he likes to fight from Southpaw from time to time but it is obvious he is not as adept from this position. This time he exposes his much more valuable rear leg as his lead leg for attack, knee hyperextension, etc. With proper setup he's asking for a toekick ala Machida.
He has smartly compensated for his infighting by using elbows and throwing shorter less powerful hooks. The Cormier fight still exposed how apt he is to turtle up when engaged in a firefight in this position. A teep to the body is an option again forcing him backwards likely exacerbating his bad habits. Knees are on the risky side. A better option when he plays ostrich is to break laterally and try to get an open look at his head.
I will reiterate that a Southpaw or someone very comfortable fighting Southpaw pose the beggest problems for him on the fight. That is besides Alexander. The horrible thing is that there's only 1 Southpaw in the top 20 and 1 Orthodox fighter who has shown proficiency from Southpaw and I think he may be 21 or so.
I know there's more that I can't remember and I may update.
Striking defense is the most glaring one. One day, the lack of defense will cost him a fight eventually if he doesn't fix it up now. Wouldn't be surprised if his first loss comes from a TKO/KO from a striker with excellent TDD. With Jones training during the off-season, Jacksons should work on head movement/footwork overtime.
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2011
- Messages
- 9,551
- Reaction score
- 431
That too. If he really got a grasp of the basics and really understood what is actually going on when he is out there he'd have a really chance of going out "undefeated."
