Jones/Sonnen....Has There Ever Been

[BrizzoBoi]

Lauzon/Pulver was a HUGE upset at the time.

But to stay on topic, iirc for the Eilers/Arlovski title fight Eilers asked one of the trainers "do you think I can win?"

 

[peytonlucy]

GSP v Serra

End thread.

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

Tito vs. Chuck 2

 

[wolowitz**]

MMA simply can't work that way. You can't think of a fight between two high level guys (and yes, despite not being as good as JDS, Mir is definitely high level) as pointless.

There was a great sig someone used to have I loved, that said something along the lines of: On December 27th, 2008, Frank Mir proved that fights are decided in the cage, not on message boards.

What did that mean? Maybe you don't know this but NO ONE gave Frank a chance going into his first fight with Big Nog. This was before Frank had shown any stand up, and it was back when his cardio was thought to be worse than ww bj penn..

so basically on paper:
-nog had great boxing, while mir had sloppy punches
-nog had way better bjj
-nog had a great chin, while mir had a shitty chin
-nog had amazing cardio while mir tended to gas in the 1st round

And guess what? Frank beat the shit out of him.

This has happened many times in MMA. On paper, BJ Penn vs Frankie Edgar was a pointless match. People literally thought it was going to be BJ's easiest fight since Joe Stevenson
-bj had better boxing (or so they thought)
-more power
-better bjj
-submissions
-chin

so it was a guy with better boxing and bjj, a guy who could finish and actually had power, vs a little guy who never hardly finished and had no power or submissions.

Seemed completely pointless.

except guess what? Edgar won. Then he won again dominantly in the rematch.

So sometimes things turn out like you expect (like jds/mir) but sometimes you get surprised and find out you're wrong (like nog/mir)

I won't argue with anything you're saying but that was the only fight I felt 100% (and so did 99% of the posters on this site) that I already knew the result of.

 

[TruckHarder]

I think people have to factor in that Chael was cutting too much weight to make Middleweight. He was fighting at around 210->215lb in the cage at middleweight according to Dolce and had to cut about 15lb of muscle in the camp.

Now he is going to weigh ~240lb and cut 30-35lb to make light heavyweight without cutting his muscle. Jones weighs around 220lb in the cage. So Chael is going to be the bigger guy with pretty much the best wrestling that jones has faced before.

I can see Chael putting Jones on his butt and holding him there. But I do think Jones TDD may stop a lot of take downs and Jones may swing an elbow and back Chael up and end it from there.

All in all it depends on how the new 240lb light heavyweight chael comes into the cage and if he has added strength and power due to his size.

 

[r-harper-1]

shields-Hendo

 

[irish_thug]

GSP v Serra

This is the one that comes to mind for me.

 

[atl2006]

I think people have to factor in that Chael was cutting too much weight to make Middleweight. He was fighting at around 210->215lb in the cage at middleweight according to Dolce and had to cut about 15lb of muscle in the camp.

Now he is going to weigh ~240lb and cut 30-35lb to make light heavyweight without cutting his muscle. Jones weighs around 220lb in the cage. So Chael is going to be the bigger guy with pretty much the best wrestling that jones has faced before.

I can see Chael putting Jones on his butt and holding him there. But I do think Jones TDD may stop a lot of take downs and Jones may swing an elbow and back Chael up and end it from there.

All in all it depends on how the new 240lb light heavyweight chael comes into the cage and if he has added strength and power due to his size.

Chael will have to take Jones down for 5 rounds and keep him there to win this fight, can he do that for 5 rounds?

 

[TruckHarder]

Chael will have to take Jones down for 5 rounds and keep him there to win this fight, can he do that for 5 rounds?

The old Chael fighting anderson had to do that. Have you seen Anderson on his back? He looks like a duck in the water rolling with elbows and punches.

Jones has never really been on his back in the way Chael could hold him down and with Chaels added size and strength he may find he can inflict more damage.

I agree with what you're saying though, if "pillowfist Chael" from the Anderson fights turn up he is doomed. My hope is he is much stronger from not cutting his muscle leading up to the fight. It's hard to know if Chaels top attacking game was just so weak or if Anderson was just so good at defending.

 

[philipstyrer**]

New to MMA?

Yeh, I started watching earlier this year.

 

[philipstyrer**]

I actually liken this fight to how I felt about Machida vs bader and this will end as embarrassingly for Chael if not worse

Bader has KO power and is bigger than Machida. He had a shot.

 

[RiverCity]

This isn't a Chael bashing thread either...

:icon_chee

 

[atl2006]

The old Chael fighting anderson had to do that. Have you seen Anderson on his back? He looks like a duck in the water rolling with elbows and punches.

Jones has never really been on his back in the way Chael could hold him down and with Chaels added size and strength he may find he can inflict more damage.

I agree with what you're saying though, if "pillowfist Chael" from the Anderson fights turn up he is doomed. My hope is he is much stronger from not cutting his muscle leading up to the fight. It's hard to know if Chaels top attacking game was just so weak or if Anderson was just so good at defending.

Jones wrestling is going to give Chael problems

 

[itsjustme***]

The old Chael fighting anderson had to do that. Have you seen Anderson on his back? He looks like a duck in the water rolling with elbows and punches.

Jones has never really been on his back in the way Chael could hold him down and with Chaels added size and strength he may find he can inflict more damage.

I agree with what you're saying though, if "pillowfist Chael" from the Anderson fights turn up he is doomed. My hope is he is much stronger from not cutting his muscle leading up to the fight. It's hard to know if Chaels top attacking game was just so weak or if Anderson was just so good at defending.

One thing I feel you are forgetting oroverlooking is Jones wrestling and tdd is lightyears ahead of Anderson. Not a knock on Silva because his striking is also way better than Jones. If you're expecting Sonnen to take Jones down as effortlessly as he did to Silva you are in for a very rude awakening.

 

[TruckHarder]

Bader has KO power and is bigger than Machida. He had a shot.

Chael is bigger than Jones too (not height wise, but size). Chael is a lot more agile than Bader, he has a quick power take down that isn't telegraphed. As to whether that is enough to get past the long legs of Jones defending a take down, who can know.

We have to wait and see how the new much bigger Chael handles things. Dolce is one of the best guys for making guys cut massive amounts of water weight and this may be the first time we see a 240lb light heavyweight fighter in the cage. Essentially what Cain and JDS fight at.

 

[effedup]

The old Chael fighting anderson had to do that. Have you seen Anderson on his back? He looks like a duck in the water rolling with elbows and punches.

Jones has never really been on his back in the way Chael could hold him down and with Chaels added size and strength he may find he can inflict more damage.

I agree with what you're saying though, if "pillowfist Chael" from the Anderson fights turn up he is doomed. My hope is he is much stronger from not cutting his muscle leading up to the fight. It's hard to know if Chaels top attacking game was just so weak or if Anderson was just so good at defending.

Giving Anderson credit he does have a hell of a beard, JBJ we are not really sure if he does. He's been clipped a couple times but I don't know if he could take Chael's vicious GnP < lol jp. Thinking Chael has a shot to win it is just pure nuthugging. I believe Chael may be able to get him down. I won't underestimate him there, but sooner or later JBJ will stuff td's, Stephan Bonnar him, or reverse him on the ground. Chael is screwed. Even Dana thinks this is fight is a joke but knows he needs CS's personality for TUF.

 

[philipstyrer**]

Chael is bigger than Jones too (not height wise, but size). Chael is a lot more agile than Bader, he has a quick power take down that isn't telegraphed. As to whether that is enough to get past the long legs of Jones defending a take down, who can know.

We have to wait and see how the new much bigger Chael handles things. Dolce is one of the best guys for making guys cut massive amounts of water weight and this may be the first time we see a 240lb light heavyweight fighter in the cage. Essentially what Cain and JDS fight at.

Chael is not laying on Jones for 25 minutes, it's just not happening.

 

[irish_thug]

Jones wrestling is going to give Chael problems

I don't think anyone's wrestling gives Chael problems.

 

[TruckHarder]

One thing I feel you are forgetting oroverlooking is Jones wrestling and tdd is lightyears ahead of Anderson. Not a knock on Silva because his striking is also way better than Jones. If you're expecting Sonnen to take Jones down as effortlessly as he did to Silva you are in for a very rude awakening.

Jones TDD is better than Andersons I have no doubt. The problem with Jones is he has an unbalanced frame (very top heavy, thin legs). This means a wrestler like Chael if he can get him on his back won't have much difficulty staying there.

But Chael dominating a round with top control is nothing if he can't figure out how to do damage. And I'm sure Jones will stuff quite a few take downs if the fight goes to 5 rounds meaning a lot will be fought standing.

Chael is a better wrestler than Rashad and will be 20lb heavier than when Rashad faced Jones. Jones didn't want to wrestle with Rashad at all. I'm not sure if Chael can get Jones down but if he does expect it to be like Anderson unable to do anything.

 

[itsjustme***]

Chael is bigger than Jones too (not height wise, but size). Chael is a lot more agile than Bader, he has a quick power take down that isn't telegraphed. As to whether that is enough to get past the long legs of Jones defending a take down, who can know.

We have to wait and see how the new much bigger Chael handles things. Dolce is one of the best guys for making guys cut massive amounts of water weight and this may be the first time we see a 240lb light heavyweight fighter in the cage. Essentially what Cain and JDS fight at.

In Jones brief tenure fighting mma we could fill a whole page on Jones opponents who were bigger than him (size wise). Look how those fights translated.