Jones is LHW GOAT & will NEVER go to heavyweight. GOT IT?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by TrollHunter, Jan 5, 2015.

  1. TrollHunter

    TrollHunter Orange Belt

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    Jon Jones - The Black Emperor. GOAT at LHW.....but I think a couple of good shots from an upper-tier heavyweight would be too much for him. I mean, even Werdum is the same height as Jones but with a much heavier and larger frame. Can you imagine what height and size disadvantage Jones would have against 6 foot 8, 245 Travis Browne? JDS, is the same height as Jon and again, has a much larger frame. Then, you have the likes of Big Foot who is a taller and has a MUCH larger frame than Jon and again, could probably knock him out.

    In fact, I will do it in list form -

    I am a huge Jon Jones fan but here are the fighters who match or outdo Jones in height and who outsize in overall frame size and mass -

    Werdum
    JDS
    Travis Browne
    Big Foot Silva

    Goodness even Matt Mitrione is larger in frame than Jones, only 1 inch shorter and his reach is only 2 inches shorter than Jones, as is Big Foots.....which is a hell of a lot different than DC.....where Jon could fully exploit his FOURTEEN INCH reach advantage. Jon could hit DC from over an entire foot away before DC could reach him.

    So why would Jones....go from a lanky framed LHW with a massive reach & range advantage, that he has the skills to utilise to his advantage.....to go up to a weight class were he is shorter and outsized by most of his opponents and even those who are much shorter in height, reach and leg-range.....have an overwhelming size & strength advantage.....ala Cain, Mark Hunt & Roy Nelson, who could probably clear him out with one or two good shots.

    I am a huge Jones fan. He is a Light Heavyweight. He has to use his reach, height and range advantage effectively, which he does. There are "larger" men in his division. Guys with bigger hands, bigger skulls, bigger frames overall.....none of them have been (and will be able) to overcome Jones skills & how he mixes it with his mechanical advantages.

    So....to all those people talking about Jones going up a weight-class.....why should and why WOULD he!?? Jones just said in an interview he would even consider going to middleweight, lol. He often talks about having to eat extra calories to keep weight ON his lanky frame.

    Jon is a lanky ectomorph who has overcome the challenges that his lanky, lean frame brings....and formed a skill to use the advantages that his superior height, range and reach offer him.

    Jon has struggled with ONE opponent. Gus.

    Gus is close to Jones in the way he uses his mechanical advantages along with his skills & technique......not on the same level YET.....but he has the same problem. Tall lanky frame that barely holds fat or muscle.....yet allows his to strike opponents from a distance that they cannot hit him back effectively.

    So no. Jones has no reason to go to Heavyweight and, even as a rabid Jon Jones acolyte.....I dont think he would fare too well were every second guy is his size, taller and ALL have heavier, larger frames. Jon would likely be struggling to step into the cage at 240.....while other guys would be walking in at 250, 260 and even 5'10 guys like Hunt have to CUT just to make 265.

    To me.....it is just more hatred from the perpetual Jones haters.

    The guy is the Light Heavyweight GOAT. Someone like Werdum, who is the same height but much MUCH larger than Jon in overall frame.....would likely submit Jon from guard.

    I think it is just desperate from Jon's haters. People are even, seriously, trying to convince themselves that ANTHONY JOHNSON will be the man to dethrone Jones....when in actual fact....it will just look like Rampage, DC and Texeira did....i.e. getting dominated everywhere, including where you are suposedly your best.

    Jon will continue to force doubters to HEEL before him....and it will get to the stage when his haters will even devalue his achievements because - "the guy ran from Heavyweight, he was ducking heavyweight to beat up manlets at LHW Bro!!" - That is just the level of hate-filled delusion us Jones fans have become accustomed too.

    Jones is going nowhere.

    Deal with it.

    Heel before our champion.

    And STILL..............................
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2015
  2. mma midwest fan

    mma midwest fan Purple Belt

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    It's the same thing as GSP. At the end of the day, the risk outweighs the reward in terms of moving up to HW. His managers and agents will no doubt advise against it. Better for your brand if you are the champion without anyone having beat you (yes, I'm aware of Hamill, lol...I think you know what I mean).

    I do think he could be competitive with any HW and possibly even win the belt, but he risks a loss far more than at LHW. Better to be the big fish in a small pond, even if Sherdoggers thinks otherwise.
     
  3. Jonny Ninja

    Jonny Ninja Brown Belt

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    Jon jones fight weight can't be far off of what Cain fights at. Incredible and exciting fighter but for me to be the GOAT he needs to move to hw and win the title. He's blessed with a perfect physique for mma and only fights guys that are smaller. The only fight he struggled he didn't have that advantage. For me he's proved he's a great champion but he needs to prove he can beat guys that he doesn't have a physical advantage over. I'd like to see him fight Cain, and that is a fight I think he'd lose. He'd batter 95% of the current heavies now without bulking up. Of those the op mentioned I think he would only struggle with jds & werdum. He'd be far to quick and slick for Browne and big foot even giving away a large size advantage
     
  4. FallonFoxGOAT

    FallonFoxGOAT Banned Banned

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    I thought this "HWs would wreck Jones!" nonsense would end after the DC fight.
     
  5. MRT

    MRT Black Belt

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    why would Jones go to HW? LEGACY

    He has no reason to do so now...but he may have reason to move up later, and here are some possible reasons why:

    1. Weight - he said at the post-fight presser that he easily makes 205 now, and he will be a LHW for a long time. This may or may not change as he gets a bit older.

    2. Competition - once you clean out a division, there is pressure to move divisions (usually up). There are still many intriguing fights at LHW, new or rematches, and you never know who is the next big challenge coming up...but Jones has largely dominated his competition, and those he hasn't dominated, he has found a way to win. He may need to move up to seek greater challenges.

    3. LEGACY - Why are guys like BJ, Couture, and Hendo considered legends? In part because they not only fought in multiple weight classes, but because they held titles in more than one weight class (a trend in boxing too). So long as guys like GSP, Silva, and Jones remain in one weight class, there will always be those "what if he moved up..." questions, no matter how dominant they have been in their usual division.

    4. Money - when you have two dominant champs in neighbouring weight classes, the natural question eventually becomes "what if they fight each other"? Who doesn't want to see Jones-Cain? Aldo-Pettis? TJ-Aldo? GSP-Silva (before that was derailed). We can debate the outcomes, who is favoured, why it is or is not a good idea for the one guy to move up, etc...but those are irrelevant to the notion that people want to see these types of 'superfights'. Imagine the PPV buys for Cain-Jones, or what GSP-Silva would have done in the not-too-distant past. Lucrative fights for all involved.

    I think #3 is the clear 'big reason'...if Jones can continue to turn away all LHWs, eventually the pressure will mount to test himself at HW, particularly given his clearly stated desire to be remembered as the GOAT.

    As he said...when the time (and money) is right, he would do it...but that is still a while from now, clearly. No reason to take that risk now...not while he can run the LHW division for years to come. But if he continues to win...he WILL move up.
     
  6. TrollHunter

    TrollHunter Orange Belt

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    No mate, I am a huge Jones fan. He is my 2nd place GOAT after Fedor. I dont think he would get "wrecked" anywhere. I am saying why he SHOULDNT do it. Not that he cant. He CAN beat everyone up to Cain Velasquez, he has the skills. But he would be putting himself at a physical DISadvantage. Which would be stupid. I prefer him overcoming the disadvantage of his lack of mass.....with his advantage of height & reach at LHW. Like Gus, he uses his massive reach & height advantage to enhance his style. I was simply listing the fighters who would be challenging or COULD cause him problems. Jones is even in my sig....I aint no Jon hater. DC was a heavyweight.....Jon made him look like an unruly stepson.

    I was making the point it would be foolish for him to increase his chances of loss against much bigger guys where he wont be able to exploit his advantages. Even the guys shorter than him up there carry heavy knock out power....like Nelson and Hunt, who I mentioned. He COULD adapt and use his skills to avoid their big hits....but the chance is still there. No one at LHW carries the hand power of Hunt or Nelson, in my opinion.

    The heavyweights I listed regularly knock each other out so I dont see why Jon would be any different.

    I prefer him dominating Light Heavyweight and drawing awe from fight fans....and hatred from his haters.

    And STILL.......
     
  7. emax

    emax Black Belt

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    DC was a HW with the worst possible body type for fighting Jones who was cutting down to LHW. This was not enough to end speculation about what would happen if Velasquez, Dos Santos or even Werdum and Miocic were fighting Jones at HW and not worrying about exhausting themselves with weight cuts. The speculation about them crushing Jones was bound to continue, especially with Cain.
     
  8. TrollHunter

    TrollHunter Orange Belt

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    Thank you for the non-douchey constructive, thought out, coherent and rational reply. There is validity in ALL of your points. I still disagree with the overall premise of him moving up (for now), I would accept him moving up (as a huge Jones fan) for any of the reasons you specified.....EVENTUALLY.

    I think, maybe I am just being too much of a protective fan-boy, but I have that feeling, such is the INTENSE hatred of Jon....that if he lost to a Werdum by sub, Cain by decision or JDS by knockout....people would seek to devalue ALL of his legacy. I feel his detractors would, more than likely, try to erase or dismiss EVERYTHING he has achieved at LHW - "He was never that good", "he just beat up short guys" "he got found out..." - whereas it SHOULD be - "Well, he is definetly not the GOAT but he is the GOAT at LHW.". Which....in sherdog & UG land....means every single win Jon achieved is WORTHLESS.

    But again, I just prefer him at LHW. He still has interesting fights available and to come....Gus rematch, Rumble (I think Jones will destroy him but still fun to watch) and the potential of maybe Weidman more long term.

    Again, thanks for the constructive reply and for making the effort to think-through and construct your points.

    Thank you, Sir.
     
  9. yookfarb

    yookfarb Red Belt

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    You simply do not understand striking at all if you think DC has the worst possible body type for fighting Jones.

    A fighter's reach is most dangerous when he is fighting an opponent that is 2-3 inches shorter than him ala Shogun, Machida, Rampage, Glover, etc.

    It is not confidence that Rashad Evans put up the best performance against Jones until Gus.
     
  10. freemarketjoe

    freemarketjoe White Belt

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    I think the question of whether he will take on any heavies will be based on money. If the UFC offers a spectacular enough pot of gold, then I think JJ would probably take a super fight. And I would expect any such fight would be competitive--no one is going to dominate JJ and I expect JJ would have a strong chance of defeating most anyone presented to him. I do NOT think he needs to move up for legacy sake--he is headed for GOAT status (if he is not there already) without stepping into the HW ranks.
     

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