Jones has passed CIR test.. Back to the coke

wisdom blows said:
DC is ten years older, and had double the test levels of Jones.
Click to expand...


1. Jones was partying and doing Coke, while Cormier wasn't...

2. T/E ratio is not the same as Test level. That's the ratio of Testosterone to Epitestosterone.
 
Alexandergreat3 said:
LOL, I love coming to Sherdog, because when these types of scandals happen, it's comical to see the clear bias and double standards in people's posts.

"Jones' low T/E ratio = suspicious of masking agent"

"Cormier's low T/E ratio = indicative of being physically drained"

:icon_lol:
Click to expand...

Here is a prominent expert in the field briefly explaining why their test results are not similar. To quote Victor Conte, an expert in the field: "DC's 12/17 T was 70 ng/mL. Jones 12/23 T was 4.9 ng/mL. DC's 2nd T was 14.29 TIMES HIGHER! IMO. NSAC's claim of similar is MISLEADING."

Further: "Use of T or steroids suppresses T & E. DC's T levels are normal or above both tests. Jones' T levels are very suppressed all 3 tests."

ELI5: It isn't just a different ratio that matters. Cormier's results are not suspicious. His T-levels are normal or above on both tests. Jones' t-levels were very suppressed on all three tests.
 
Alexandergreat3 said:
LOL, I love coming to Sherdog, because when these types of scandals happen, it's comical to see the clear bias and double standards in people's posts.

"Jones' low T/E ratio = suspicious of masking agent"

"Cormier's low T/E ratio = indicative of being physically drained"

:icon_lol:
Click to expand...

It's getting fucking ridiculous at this point. Anyone defending DC while attacking Jones can't even be taken seriously.
 
method115 said:
http://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/2rslf3/dcs_te_ratio_came_out_as_one_third_of_what_it/

Well everyone here seems to disagree with you about nothing being suspicious.
Click to expand...

Here is a prominent expert in the field briefly explaining why their test results are not similar. To quote Victor Conte, an expert in the field: "DC's 12/17 T was 70 ng/mL. Jones 12/23 T was 4.9 ng/mL. DC's 2nd T was 14.29 TIMES HIGHER! IMO. NSAC's claim of similar is MISLEADING."

Further: "Use of T or steroids suppresses T & E. DC's T levels are normal or above both tests. Jones' T levels are very suppressed all 3 tests."

ELI5: It isn't just a different ratio that matters. Cormier's T-levels are normal or above on both tests. Jones' t-levels were very suppressed on all three tests. Cormier's results are not suspicious. Reddit is hardly a community of experts.
 
I'm not really a fan of individual fighters as I'm more of a fan of the sport as a whole. I have always looked foreword to watching Jones fight though. He always brings it and it's always a bonus to be around to watch a great athlete preform in his prime.

That being said there is a lot of sad people on these boards. I don't understand how some of you losers can take so much joy in somebody else's misfortune. A lot of you homo's were just praying that he was on ped's so you could discredit him in some way.

All Jones did was party a little to hard in Brazil. It's not like he was using anything to give him an athletic edge.

Are you the same kind of people that cheer when a good player on your rival football team goes down with a career ending injury? Or get mad when one of your close friends wins money at a casino? I guess I just don't get it.
 
burnthehive said:
Here is a prominent expert in the field briefly explaining why their test results are not similar. To quote Victor Conte, an expert in the field: "DC's 12/17 T was 70 ng/mL. Jones 12/23 T was 4.9 ng/mL. DC's 2nd T was 14.29 TIMES HIGHER! IMO. NSAC's claim of similar is MISLEADING."

Further: "Use of T or steroids suppresses T & E. DC's T levels are normal or above both tests. Jones' T levels are very suppressed all 3 tests."

ELI5: It isn't just a different ratio that matters. Cormier's results are not suspicious. His T-levels are normal or above on both tests. Jones' t-levels were very suppressed on all three tests.
Click to expand...

Victor Conte doesn't explain it enough. Though for instance why is Cormier E levels higher? Why is an elite athlete not at 1:1 if not higher? His ratios are not right and victor doesn't explain why. He just said his T levels are normal that's it. So if his T levels are normal why is his body producing so much more E.
 
method115 said:
It's getting fucking ridiculous at this point. Anyone defending DC while attacking Jones can't even be taken seriously.
Click to expand...

No, people who think DCs results and Jones are the same cant be taken seriously. Jones test level (not the ratio on Dec 4th was average.. FOR A WOMAN. You really think there is even the slightest chance in hell that Jones is who he is with testosterone levels of a woman? Or perhaps the more likely explanation (as in 99.99999% likely) is that he was cycling off something that dropped his test to basically 0... the gradual increase as fight time approached (From 59 to 180 on the 'usual scale') is also consistent with cycling off and the slow return of natural testosterone production. Again, not that I care as I think most fighters are using, but pretending DCs test results and Jones are the same is moronic. Also, the CIR test being negative for Jones is not that surprising.. he barely had any testosterone in his system at all... if he had high levels and negative CIR then it would be very convincing that he isn't using.
 
burnthehive said:
Here is a prominent expert in the field briefly explaining why their test results are not similar. To quote Victor Conte, an expert in the field: "DC's 12/17 T was 70 ng/mL. Jones 12/23 T was 4.9 ng/mL. DC's 2nd T was 14.29 TIMES HIGHER! IMO. NSAC's claim of similar is MISLEADING."

Further: "Use of T or steroids suppresses T & E. DC's T levels are normal or above both tests. Jones' T levels are very suppressed all 3 tests."

ELI5: It isn't just a different ratio that matters. Cormier's T-levels are normal or above on both tests. Jones' t-levels were very suppressed on all three tests. Cormier's results are not suspicious. Reddit is hardly a community of experts.
Click to expand...

It is very suspicious that an elite athlete who's been training his whole life is has less then a 1:1 ratio. The NSAC goes as high as 6:1 because these athletes are different then you and me but somehow DC is below what is even normal for me and you. Why is his body producing that much more E compared to his T?
 
Jones is young and rich (at least by my standards) and a public figure. As far as him doing cocaine, it is what it is and the whole "I'm going to rehab!", I'm sort of on the same page as Nate Diaz... it's a publicity scam to maximize damage control.

You don't go to rehab because you tried cocaine once... you go if you have an ongoing prolonged issue with the substance abuse. Is this the case here? I'm inclined to say doubtful, but I (nor anyone else) really have enough info to go on. While his money could certainly afford him the ability to buy and snort coke at will, physically, he doesn't seem to be suffering the physical effects of a bad coke addiction. So do I think this is an attempt to publicly save face? I do.

As far as the low testing results for both fighters, I can't really make an informed opinion, but can't help but think to GSP's stance on PED's/drugs. There's too much latitude nowadays with what's tested being tested for, when, who's actually conducting it, in or out of competition, where the fight occurs (pertaining to the state and/or country), and how often the testing is being done.

Designer drugs/stimulants make it even more difficult and further complicates the process, and typically it's the upper echelon fighters that can afford them, because I'm simply assuming they would be more expensive. I don't know for sure, never used steriods/PED's etc., or am aware of the intricacies of cycling.

As far as the publicity side of things, then yes, it seems like Jones got a pass where other fighters haven't. I understand the circumstances may be different, but if this board indicates anything, it's the distinct lack of understanding when the rules apply and don't. In general, I believe most Sherdoggers are more informed than the general public and casual fans (as a whole), and if we disagree, imagine how the general public views instances such as this.

The only sure fix that I see, is mandatory testing by a third party for all fighters contracted by the UFC at specifically regulated intervals (that avoids cycling time frames), with no exceptions. Have additional random tests if any fighter is suspected of abusing the system or drugs.

If that means you want to fight in the UFC, then take the tests, don't dope or cheat, and lay off the illicit drugs. Or don't fight. Leave the choice to the fighter, and if he wants to smoke pot, blast lines, or be a part time bodybuilder, then don't fight.

It's either that or simply just let all fighters smoke, snort, and inject themselves with as much shit as humanly possible and see what happens.
 
method115 said:
It is very suspicious that an elite athlete who's been training his whole life is has less then a 1:1 ratio. The NSAC goes as high as 6:1 because these athletes are different then you and me but somehow DC is below what is even normal for me and you. Why is his body producing that much more E compared to his T?
Click to expand...

In males, as you get older you produce less T, I believe.
 
method115 said:
It is very suspicious that an elite athlete who's been training his whole life is has less then a 1:1 ratio. The NSAC goes as high as 6:1 because these athletes are different then you and me but somehow DC is below what is even normal for me and you. Why is his body producing that much more E compared to his T?
Click to expand...

Ugh. The ratio test is stupidity in the first place. It is used because it is more stable then just comparing testosterone levels outright (and not to penalize people with very high natural testosterone). The 6 : 1 is also an absurd threshold that allows most people to use without being caught (probably so not every athlete ever gets caught despite most using).

Note, I am not necessarily arguing that DC is clean, but if DC passed a CIR test while having normal range testosterone levels he has a MUCH more convincing case than Jones who passed a CIR while having almost no testosterone period. The fact someone like Jones can EVER test as low as 59ng/dL of testosterone in their system is pretty much proof he is doped.
 
gaash said:
Ugh. The ratio test is stupidity in the first place. It is used because it is more stable then just comparing testosterone levels outright (and not to penalize people with very high natural testosterone). The 6 : 1 is also an absurd threshold that allows most people to use without being caught (probably so not every athlete ever gets caught despite most using).

Note, I am not necessarily arguing that DC is clean, but if DC passed a CIR test while having normal range testosterone levels he has a MUCH more convincing case than Jones who passed a CIR while having almost no testosterone period. The fact someone like Jones can EVER test as low as 59ng/dL of testosterone in their system is pretty much proof he is doped.
Click to expand...

Do we have a source for DanielsT levels. All I've seen is ratios I havent seen an article that gets into specifics.
 
method115 said:
Do we have a source for DanielsT levels. All I've seen is ratios I havent seen an article that gets into specifics.
Click to expand...

I think I saw it mentioned somewhere at 500-700ng/dL (the normal units used) but yea, my comment is contingent and those numbers actually being accurate. Jones numbers showed virtually no testosterone ramping up into the low normal range as fight time approached ... clearly consistent with cycling off
 
mental mickey said:
Why are you so obsessed with there being a 'scandal' .. You sound like a conspiracy nut
Click to expand...

i don't know if im obsessed with there being a scandal, but with all of these fuck ups from the commission, it doesn't make them look good .. like i said, if there is a scandal, they are in on it or they are just extremely incompetent .. but for now i am giving jones the benefit of the doubt, but i don't think he deserves it
 
gaash said:
I think I saw it mentioned somewhere at 500-700ng/dL (the normal units used) but yea, my comment is contingent and those numbers actually being accurate. Jones numbers showed virtually no testosterone ramping up into the low normal range as fight time approached ... clearly consistent with cycling off
Click to expand...

I haven't been able to find the numbers anywhere except from Victor Conte.

Also I caught Victor in a lie or he doesn't know exactly what he's talking about. He says "Use of testosterone will supress T and E levels.

I found this online though

t has been shown that exogenous administration of testosterone does not affect levels of epitestosterone in the body. As a result, tests to determine the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone in urine are used to find athletes who are doping.[3] A study of Australian athletes found that the mean T/E ratio in the study was 1.15:1.[4] Another study found that the max T/E ratio for the 95th percentile of athletes was 3.71:1, and the max T/E ratio for the 99th percentile was 5.25:1 [5]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epitestosterone
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,236,694
Messages
55,435,218
Members
174,775
Latest member
kilgorevontrouty

Share this page

Back
Top