Jones: better or worse than he seems?

[ejazahmednit]

Are you seeing the same fights as I am
I dislike Jones utterly, but he is the most dominant champion LHW ever has, he has had only two close fights , Gus I and Santos

 

[MuayThaiBX]

Under stricter testing scrutiny he isn't the violent finisher he once was. But he is still a great point fighter and excellent defensive fighter with his length, fight IQ, and volume. He also ups his game a bit when he sees the opponent as dangerous. He tends to coast when he feels like he has things under control.

 

[Bjjpitbull8]

Lol yeah ok

Jones was a fucking baby when he was beating these all-time legendary fighters. He was not in his prime. He was not even close to being in his prime. Watch Jones at 23 and tell me his striking is anywhere near the level it is today.

Except that Khabib has struggled against guys like Tibau (arguably lost the fight on rounds), Iaquinta (sort of), Michael Johnson (standing) and hasn't really defended at all compared to Jones.

Khabib won the title off Iaquinta, which is a joke. He's defended twice since then and has faced two guys in McGregor and Porier who aren't wrestlers, albeit two good wins.

Jones has defened his belt 10 times, and also fought in 4 title fights (one interim) outside of that. Yeah Jon Jones hasn't killed people lately but he did in the earlier portion of his career. Not even comparable, Jones has a way better resume' and it's the exact opposite of what you're saying.

Khabib won the belt off Iaquinta. His best wins are McGregor and Porier probably, his 3rd best is like...Barboza? Where as Jones has beat DC twice (draw for one), Bader, Shogun, Rampage, Machida, Evans, TRT Belfort, Glover, Gus twice, OSP...I mean he just has a superior resume' it's not really debatable.

Facing other guys that were also gushing with Roids. Some that were known cheaters by the way.

Sonnen
Vitor

well Shogun was 29 defeated the undefeated Machida.
Rashad had 1 career loss (to champ)
Lyoto had 1 career loss (to champ)
Rampage was 32 and recent champ
TRT Vitor was in his 3rd prime.
Gus had 1 career loss.

All but Gus are HOF and I know I know, 1 loss they were over the hill at that point

I was going to go on a rant, but you boys said it all.

 

[Captain Herb]

But at least acknowledge they are a collection of the greatest 205 fighters ever.

At the time, but Jones changed the definition of a 205 fighter. They became dinosaurs overnight. If those guys had the size for post-Jones 205, they might have stuck around.

 

[bubbleboyjones]

When I look at a champ like Khabib, I see complete and utter dominance. He makes guys quit in the ring, and makes it look easy. His wrestling is so damn good that I can't see any other lw on the planet beating him, other than with a fluke KO.

Jones, on the other hand, has a significant amount of very close wins.

DC 1 was a slugfest, with neither fighter looking great by the end. DC 2 was a close match up until the KO (hell DC might have even been winning until that point).

OSP fight was unimpressive. Santos fight was very close, and the guys legs were shot. Gus 1 was very close. Gus 2 jones had a great game plan for, so I'll give him that one.

With all these close wins, is Jon overrated / lucky ? He clearly isn't very dominant. Other than Gus 2, I haven't seen him put on a Khabib style one sided beatdown in a while.

Or is all of this on purpose? As he leaves his athletic prime, maybe he has just adopted a much more careful and meticulous style (like Kobe in his 30s), meaning he is content to get the close wins ? Maybe he is just that good and all this is part of the plan?

Which one is it?

Khabib fights extremely conservative that plays to his strengths. Jones will fight guys anywhere. Not to mention Jones has been doing this a lot longer.

 

[arcadeperfect]

He's lost a lot more rounds than Khabib and Khabib wins a lot more 10-8 rounds in a way more stacked division.

Jones has been in over 10 championship fights.

 

[Bamboozled]

Shogun
Rampage
Rashad
Vitor
Machida
DC two times
Gus Two Times

Did you bump your head?

Old as fuck
Old as fuck
No TRT
Old as fuck
DC wins are good
Gus wouldn't crack the top 10 in 2007. Dude isn't even as good as Arona.

Do you watch fights?

 

[Bamboozled]

Guys who earn title shots are cans? Nice

The UFC LHW division has been garbage for a long time.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Old as fuck
Old as fuck
No TRT
Old as fuck
DC wins are good
Gus wouldn't crack the top 10 in 2007. Dude isn't even as good as Arona.

Do you watch fights?

Even if I agreed with your opinion that they were past their prime. They accomplished amazing things in the sport. Khabib Can we pick these fucking people out of a police lineup? Who the fuck are they? Seriously I’m asking you who the fuck are these people? Give me a breakdown of all of his opponents..

 

[Bamboozled]

Even if I agreed with your opinion that they were past their prime. They accomplished amazing things in the sport. Khabib Can we pick these fucking people out of a police lineup? Who the fuck are they? Seriously I’m asking you who the fuck are these people? Give me a breakdown of all of his opponents..

In fairness, I view the competition rather similarly. But 155 is just more talented. Always has been, so I'd put 155 above LHW by default.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

In fairness, I view the competition rather similarly. But 155 is just more talented. Always has been, so I'd put 155 above LHW by default.

You didn’t answer my question. I want you to give me a breakdown of his opponents and tell me who the fuck they are? In my opinion he has faced literally two Hall of Fame level opponents in his entire career and one is borderline. The others are fucking cab drivers and bartenders. Prove me wrong.

 

[HwoarangStyle]

definitely worse than he shows. i think hes probably a fuckin prick in real life.

 

[Bamboozled]

You didn’t answer my question. I want you to give me a breakdown of his opponents and tell me who the fuck they are? In my opinion he has faced literally two Hall of Fame level opponents in his entire career and one is borderline. The others are fucking cab drivers and bartenders. Prove me wrong.

Beating a hall of famer when they're toast isn't the same as fighting a hall of famer in their prime.

There, I proved you wrong.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Beating a hall of famer when they're toast isn't the same as fighting a hall of famer in their prime.

There, I proved you wrong.

First of all if you look at the ages of the Hall of Fame fighters Jones faced they were not old. Shogun off the bat was 29 and knocked out Machida to win the belt. So you lose just based on those merits. Secondly you still didn’t answer the question. Khabib Who are his opponents? He has a list of gatekeepers at best and people nobody has ever heard of. When they retire nobody remembers them. Why? Because they accomplished absolutely nothing in the sport.

 

[Bamboozled]

First of all if you look at the ages of the Hall of Fame fighters Jones faced they were not old. Shogun off the bat was 29 and knocked out Machida to win the belt. So you lose just based on those merits. Secondly you still didn’t answer the question. Khabib Who are his opponents? He has a list of gatekeepers at best and people nobody has ever heard of. When they retire nobody remembers them. Why? Because they accomplished absolutely nothing in the sport.

Now I'm starting to think you're just dumb.

Shogun was old by 27 years old. Dude can't even run anymore by then. He's one of the biggest what ifs along with Mach Sakurai because of the car accident. Two guys who found success despite their limitations.

I don't know what you want, who is more popular means its a better win? That's not how it works. You don't know who the fuck Harry Greb is and he's the GOAT boxer.

 

[Shinobi]

When I look at a champ like Khabib, I see complete and utter dominance. He makes guys quit in the ring, and makes it look easy. His wrestling is so damn good that I can't see any other lw on the planet beating him, other than with a fluke KO.

Jones, on the other hand, has a significant amount of very close wins.

DC 1 was a slugfest, with neither fighter looking great by the end. DC 2 was a close match up until the KO (hell DC might have even been winning until that point).

OSP fight was unimpressive. Santos fight was very close, and the guys legs were shot. Gus 1 was very close. Gus 2 jones had a great game plan for, so I'll give him that one.

With all these close wins, is Jon overrated / lucky ? He clearly isn't very dominant. Other than Gus 2, I haven't seen him put on a Khabib style one sided beatdown in a while.

Or is all of this on purpose? As he leaves his athletic prime, maybe he has just adopted a much more careful and meticulous style (like Kobe in his 30s), meaning he is content to get the close wins ? Maybe he is just that good and all this is part of the plan?

Which one is it?

Jon knows himself better than anyone else. He decided he isn't that good so he juiced to become good enough. Case closed.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Now I'm starting to think you're just dumb.

Shogun was old by 27 years old

He was born in 1981 and they fought in 2011. So whip out your Calculator and tell me how old was he? Still not answering any of my questions about the man you were claiming faced better competition. You are dodging it because you have no answer at all. Stop replying already. You already lost.

 

[facefucair]

Conor made Khabib look very human at times

Also Jones dominance is tied directly to PEDs. Lately he has only been a picogram better than his competition.

what part of that fight seemed competitive to you?

 

[moreorless87]

Jones was favored in the real world

Shogun was favored here (check the poles) he was "going to knock Jones head off"

I saw the fight Jones beat him unmercifully from the beginning in one of the most uncompromising beatdowns in mma history.

It wasnt until after the beatdown Shogun was rendered an "old 29 year old UFC champion"

Again actually rewatch the fight, Jones takes Shogun down after 30 secs, has about 3 mins of top control were he's mostly defending then by the time Shogun gets back up he's clearly badly gassed, I'm sorry it its obvious he is and Jones spending another 7-8 mins putting him away,

The reality is one ACL sugery can have a massive negative effect on someones career, with Shogun I think if anything its supprising he was able to recover from the first couple but again it took time and coming back too fast he gassed quickly vs Coleman.

I just don't think this is the massive win its hyped to be, its a good win as even a declining Shogun with poor cardio is still decent but its not the same guy who beat Machida. Jones didn't end his prime, injuries did.

 

[PIИKBLIИK]

Imagine also in most of his wins he was fully juiced also.